Israel and Palestine: The Path to Peace

“And hope here, I don't think it's passive. It is active. It's a form of resistance against despair. And it must be paired with a political imagination, that belief that we can build the future.” 

–Wasim Almasri, Director of Programs, The Alliance for Middle East Peace

In this important conversation, Andrea and Terrell speak with Avi Meyerstein, Founder and President of the Alliance for Middle East Peace (ALLMEP), and Wasim Almasri, Director of Programs based in the West Bank city of Ramallah. They discuss what a meaningful path to peace looks like for Israelis and Palestinians, how to achieve it, the priorities the outgoing and incoming U.S. administrations must focus on, and the pending ceasefire deal, which has seen a resurgence of promising negotiations in recent days. 

If you’re looking for defiant hope and a light to show the way in these dark times, listen to the team at ALLMEP who have been hard at work planting powerful seeds of change. For more on their work, check at the link at the top of the show notes. 

Want to enjoy Gaslit Nation ad-free? Join our community of listeners for bonus shows, ad-free episodes, exclusive Q&A sessions, our group chat, invites to live events like our Monday political salons at 4pm ET over Zoom, and more! Sign up at Patreon.com/Gaslit!

Thank you to everyone who supports the show–we could not make Gaslit Nation without you! 

Show Notes:

The Alliance for Middle East Peace: https://www.allmep.org/

Hopes for Gaza ceasefire-for-hostages deal rise Israeli officials, Hamas sources, and US and Arab figures say deal may be within reach – perhaps within days https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/17/israeli-negotiators-head-to-qatar-as-hopes-rise-for-gaza-hostage-deal

Download Transcript

Transcript

Andrea Chalupa (00:00):

Gaslit Nation is more than a podcast. If you believe like we do that another world is possible, you are not alone. Ready to join the conversation and connect with like-minded listeners. Become a member of Gaslit Nation on Patreon. As a member, you'll get access to our exclusive virtual events like our weekly resilience, political salons, bonus shows, all while supporting the independent journalism that the world needs now more than ever. Join us at patreon.com/gaslit. We can't wait to welcome you

Sponsor 1 (00:30):

This holiday season. Surprise everyone on your list with the best gifts tickets to see their favorite artists live. Choose from thousands of concerts and comedy shows including Mariah Carey, Mary j Blige, Matt Matthews, Metallica Thomas, Rhett Trans Siberian Orchestra, Sarah Silverman, and so many more. Share a memory together or give a gift they'll never forget. Find the most exciting gift for every fan at livenation.com/gifts. That's live nation dot com slash gifts.

Andrea Chalupa (01:06):

Hey everyone, welcome to Gaslit Nation. I am your host, Andrea Chalupa, a journalist and filmmaker and the writer and producer of the journalistic thriller, Mr. Jones, about Stalin's genocide famine in Ukraine, the film that Kremlin doesn't want you to see. So be sure to watch it this week. We are running a very special conversation. It took place days following the one year anniversary of October 7th. We held this conversation because it's so important. We didn't want it to get lost in the noise of the 2024 election because there's so much that is said in this that will light the way for not only Israelis and Palestinians to finally live in peace for their children, to live in peace and heal and generations of trauma, but for all of us, no matter where we are in the world, to learn the skills of conflict resolution and building peace wherever we are and not giving up and being tenacious in the mission for peace.

(02:01):

This is a beautiful conversation. It's a heartfelt conversation, and this group was brought to my attention by a gaslit nation listener and I'm so thankful for that. And joining me is Terrell Starr of the Black Diplomats Podcast in Substack. We are going to be talking with the wonderful folks behind all mep, the Alliance for Middle East piece. Here's a short clip about their extraordinarily important work that all world leaders everywhere, all donors, everywhere, large and small need to listen to because this is the group that is centering civil society, which is the light. The light in all the darkness of the war that we've seen between Israelis and Palestinians. This is the group that is shining the way and showing the way forward for all of us.

Speaker 3 (02:46):

The alliance from Middle East Peace is the largest and fastest growing network of Palestinian and Israeli peace builders.

Speaker 4 (02:53):

Over 150 grassroots organizations that are flipping the script, doing the hard work of bringing Arabs and Jews, Israelis and Palestinians together.

Speaker 5 (03:04):

ALLMEP purpose is to support and scale its members' work. How do they do it

Speaker 4 (03:09):

In two interconnected ways?

Speaker 5 (03:11):

First, ALLMEP expert on the ground team provide services to its members, all kinds of essential resources and programs based on cooperation

Speaker 4 (03:21):

From training and advice to capacity building, crisis management and more.

Speaker 3 (03:26):

All the things that these peace builders must have to thrive and grow, empowering thousands of people to bring change to millions,

Speaker 4 (03:34):

Helping Palestinians and Israelis become partners,

Speaker 3 (03:37):

Building lasting and sustainable peace. The second way ALLMEP supports its members is by unlocking remarkable amounts of money for their work.

Speaker 4 (03:46):

Over the last decade, ALLMEP advocacy has secured over $130 million, mostly from the US government.

Speaker 5 (03:55):

And in 2020 they went on to unlock a further $250 million, the largest ever investment in Israeli-Palestinian, peacebuilding.

Speaker 4 (04:04):

And all this with a small global team,

Speaker 5 (04:07):

No donation have ever made has had that impact or return on investment,

Speaker 3 (04:13):

And there's still more to come.

Speaker 4 (04:14):

ALLMEP is now working to create an international fund for Israeli-Palestinian peace

Speaker 5 (04:20):

By leveraging that $250 million to move other governments around the world to invest in Middle East peace

Speaker 3 (04:26):

Building to create a lasting foundation upon which peace can be built.

Andrea Chalupa (04:31):

We are joined today by two special guests, Avi Meyerstein, the president and founder of the Alliance for Middle East Peace and Wasim Alasmri, the Ramala Base program director and alliance of over 160 grassroots groups working towards peace and justice between Palestinians and Israelis. And your membership includes hundreds of thousands, Israelis and Palestinians working together, and you are up against some of the most powerful forces in the world, including the US government. And so we wanted to have an important conversation with you today because as we're always saying on Gaslit Nation, grassroots power is the most reliable power we have left to build a livable future for all. And you are on the front lines of that hope for the world. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for the incredibly important work that you're both doing. So first we want to check in with you. Obviously the last couple years have been escalating to where we are now, which is essentially a regional war. How are you both doing? How are your families, how are you feeling in this moment?

Wasim Almasri (05:42):

Well, I'll try to go first. It's been difficult. It's been difficult to cope with the changes around because first I'm a third generation refugee, so I was born in Lebanon. I was raised between Syria and Gaza. So I've lived a long time in Gaza. This is where my father family comes from. And it was until I think recently in 2010 when I lived Gaza, but I lived behind a huge family. And also my wife is originally from Gaza, so we've lost many family members and close friends. We've also lost our homes and yeah, I think we're dealing with generational trauma at the moment. So this is where we're, at least from my family side.

Andrea Chalupa (06:34):

Thank you so much for sharing that. And Avi, what about you? How are you doing?

Avi Meyerstein (06:40):

I'm okay. We often say that it's a loaded question for the last year. I also have a lot of family and personal connections. Unfortunately lost a good friend on October 7th and a cousin a couple days later. And then all of my friends, family and friends, including Sems and many others that we know, both Israeli and Palestinian. It's been the hardest time in my life engaging with this and the story of Israel and the conflict between Israel and the Palestinians has been part of my life my entire life. I'm a grandson of four people who got out just before and after the Holocaust, and half my family ended in America and the other half in Israel. And so it's just an intimate part of who I am. Not to mention doing this work for 20 years. One of the things that keeps me going is being able to see Wasim and for us to talk about and care about each other's families and how we're doing and sort of hold each other up. He's obviously in a much more complicated situation and dangerous most of the time because he's living there. I'm generally in the US here in America, American Jews, and I know Palestinians as well are feeling it all the time.

Wasim Almasri (08:00):

Yeah, I don't think I have known anything about anything else in the past 14 plus years. This work has was shaped both by the ongoing conflict and my profound belief in the possibility of peace, to be honest, because I'm raising four children in the West Bank and Alah and I experienced firsthand these daily challenges of navigating the world where it's full of violence and barrier. Honestly, the last year, like I said, the destruction in Gaza Twin beyond the buildings and infrastructure, to be honest, it just torn apart families and displaced millions and deepened these wounds of generation trauma. I think this work is needed now more than ever. And I think I have the moral boost by just looking at my four children.

Andrea Chalupa (08:48):

And how did the alliance for Middle East piece, how did that come to be and what are you now focused on in this current crisis?

Avi Meyerstein (08:57):

I was a lawyer for 19 years and in my second year practicing law, which was not something I really planned to do with my life, just sort of stumbled into it. This conflict was roaring. It was the worst time before this one in decades, which was during the second ada. I had sort of drifted away from focusing on this as much as I had in growing up. And it pulled me back because it was so painful to watch how close we came. It seemed to resolving the conflict to watch it all crash. And from my perspective to see when pollsters would talk to Israelis and Palestinians, they would say the same thing. They would say they were still willing to make tough compromises to reach a deal, but the reason that they didn't think it would ever happen is because they didn't see that they had a partner.

(09:46):

To me, this was crazy that from over here in America, I could see them both saying the same thing, but they couldn't see each other and they weren't connected and they didn't feel any sense of trust or partnership. And that's where time and again, the political processes always broke down. Even when you got leaders to sign tough deals that were not easy to get to, the Publix had not been prepared. And so I reached out to a few organizations that I had heard of who were doing that very fundamental work to build relationships between Israelis and Palestinians. It was schools, it was youth sports programs, it was businesses, its medical professionals, cooperating, really everything under the sun. And at the beginning we just found a few and suggested to them, maybe there's something we can do if we work together, maybe we can raise your voices more because nobody sees it on tv.

(10:36):

Nobody in the halls of government hears about it. And what I quickly learned was the organizations were completely fragmented, so they were all doing this really hard thing and they were doing it alone. And they had similar challenges, but they weren't leveraging each other's strengths. And secondly, they all said, we have such impact on individuals who come through our doors. They're transformed when they walk out, but we have shoestring budgets so we can only work with so many people. We have waiting lists. I thought that was insane that in the height of the second Intifada, there were waiting lists of Israelis and Palestinians who wanted to come together to work together to overcome the stereotypes on tv and there weren't resources. And so we started organizing. I got my law firm to do it pro bono, and we started building a coalition and we immediately started advocating for big government resources.

(11:26):

One of our strategies is to take those big institutional players and inject the peace building and turn the aircraft carrier, so to speak, towards the direction of peace by putting resources in and getting them to stand behind it. And to date, we've brought almost $400 million to the table through our work in the United States. Unfortunately, that is relative to the size of the conflict and the traumatizing reality media that comes through every minute of every day. It's not nearly enough, but it is a big start. So we do that advocacy around the world and then on the ground, what seems part of our team.

Andrea Chalupa (12:04):

So what's going on there on the ground, especially in this last year,

Wasim Almasri (12:07):

Yeah, it has been immensely difficult to communicate with one another. And I have to shift back a little bit to the idea that Avi talked about, which is the partner on the other side. I think that's what drove me first to start working with mib is for many Palestinians there's a certain struggle for justice and peace, and it requires sometimes building solidarity across community. We think this is essential. But what you discover after working in this field for 14 plus years is that you can't do this alone. It required finding partners, especially on the other side of this con, who are willing to work toward the shared vision of peace based on equality and human dignity. And I think despite the deep divides that exists, there are Israeli activists, peacebuilders, ordinary citizens who also believe injustice for Palestinians who reject the status quo of violence and occupation.

(13:07):

And these people are not our enemies. I think they're our partners in the pursuit of our own liberation and peace. Right. And through this work in the past years, I have witnessed how these connections between Palestinians and Israelis can grow even the most challenging circumstances. Have we seen in the past year joint efforts in education, economic cooperation, youth empowerment? Sure. It's possible to build bridges of understanding and trust. And these partnership are crucial because they challenge the narrative of the vision that keeps us apart. And I think that's super important to remember. And in the past year, being able to connect on a human level with your partners has been, let's just say it came with a lot of challenges because of the level of dehumanization and polarization that the media has brought into the table. And it become this very difficult journey of trying to rebuild the partnerships and then focus on the work that are most important, which is investing in people. So for the past year we've done incredible work focusing on trauma and generational trauma for Palestinians and Israelis. We've done also focusing on democracy and conversation and dialogue through deliberative new technologies. As we did with ai. We're focusing now on women empowerment and bringing together Palestinian Israeli women activists as we've seen that in many conflicts around the world, around the globe, women were essential in building peace and places of conflict.

Andrea Chalupa (14:38):

In what way would you say the media has been dehumanizing Palestinians? In what way would you like them to report on the conflict?

Wasim Almasri (14:49):

That's an interesting question. Me, and as someone who's a father and have four children, one of them is 16 years old, so it's difficult to have these conversations sometimes, but as a Palestinian, it's impossible not to feel the weight of the double standards of Western media when it comes to how Palestinians are portrayed. Because far too often and Palestinians are dehumanized, they reduce the numbers and news reports that fail to capture the real lives behind the statistics. Children who were killed in Gaza are rarely shown with the same empathy or humanity as children from other parts of the world. And this contributes to the global indifference to our suffering, and it creates a narrative where the loss of Palestinian lives becomes normalized. I would even go and say even expected these double standards have contributed to where we at today. I don't think people realize this because media reporting can influence Western public opinion, and in turn, it affects the policies that government adopt toward the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

(15:53):

Because when Palestinians are seen only through the lens of conflict and not as people with hopes, dreams, and the right to a future, it becomes easier for international leaders to overlook our suffering or act for that matter. So I think the narrative needs to shift and the word needs to see us as fully human deserving of the same rights and empathy as anybody else. And our children lives, our futures and our dreams should not be less valuable. We need the international community to see us not just as victims, but as people with the capacity for resilience and peace. And I think only then they can be. We as Palestinian Israelis on the ground here will begin to dismantle these structures of violence and dehumanization that keeps us from living in peace and dignity,

Avi Meyerstein (16:40):

Agreeing with, of course, what with Wasim said, to just think about how extra complex the media question is. First of all, for people on the ground. I think one of the most striking things that I've witnessed over these last 12 months is how completely separate the media environments are. For most Palestinians and most Israelis, they are generally not seeing what's happening on the other side unless individuals who really make an extra effort and that's shaping their public opinions about each other and what's taking place. If you look at the mainstream Israeli media, there is rarely coverage about the human impacts of what's happening in Gaza. The only times they talk about it are usually when the world is upset about something and they have to try to put it in context like what's everybody talking about? And also, I remember from the early days of the war, there was a lot of discussion between the Israelis and Palestinians who had relationships and many did reach out with concern for each other, but some didn't.

(17:38):

And we had to problem solve that within the community. And one of the things we learned was that there were Palestinians many who didn't really get the news about what happened in the early days on October 7th. And so not having the news, they weren't able to be in a position to really reach out. And pretty quickly thereafter, Gaza was on the receiving end of an awful lot of violence and bombing. And so the whole story changed. So those media echo chambers have been doing a such immense disservice. And the second thing I wanted to say to add even more complexity is this has been a theme my whole life of watching this conflict. I grew up in a community in the Jewish and the Israeli community where everybody thinks the media is against us. And I know from my relationships with Palestinians and Arabs and Muslims that they're convinced of the same.

(18:27):

And I can tell you during this time, as recently as this week, talking to family members opening up the newspaper and saying, what on earth is that headline? How can they say it like that? I know those conversations are happening on both sides. And the way I come to understand how that's possible is not only the echo chambers, but also the fact that we have allowed this zero sum narrative to take root and to really dominate. And so it's a battle for who's going to be the bigger victim or who is the victim that you can't possibly both be victims and are we telling my story? And if you're you're telling their story, you must not be telling mine. And that's part of the illness that we're suffering from in this conflict, that zero sum mentality, it's one of the things we have to get over. I can also want my side, so to speak, if I'm taking sides to be heard. And it shouldn't come at the expense of me and everyone else knowing what's happening to Wassim's family and everyone in Gaza.

Terrell Starr (19:25):

Yeah, I just wanted to say here in Ramah, I was in Ramah, I went to the West Bank last year and I've been to Hiran. I saw police abuses. I saw people literally just being profiled just the way that black people are treated in some respects. Not saying that everything is the same thing, but when I was walking through streets, that era, people couldn't walk through to be given that my family comes from a history of Jim Crow, it made me physically ill to see that. And so it left an impression on me that will remain with me for the rest of my life. And I saw the lack of humanity that Arabs were treated with, and it was frankly disgusting. And I'm disgusted by my own leaders here in the States that don't voice that and talk about it. I want to talk to you about your life, man. You've taken so much of this time to work across ethnic and cultural lines to better for this pursuit of peace. But what's it like for you, my man, to just travel and get to places? I mean, a lot of people may not know how difficult it is for you to get from point A to point B. I'm curious about that.

Wasim Almasri (20:31):

Yeah, I mean, obviously this is state of where we at right now. It has been the case for many years because Palestinians live under a military occupation in West Bank. And obviously our daily lives are controlled by checkpoints, by economical sanctions and so on and so forth. So traveling is difficult. We don't have an airport as I'm not sure if your audience know or not, but Palestinians don't have an airport. So in many cases when you need to travel, you need to go through cross a bridge that is controlled by the Israelis and it's Jordian into Jordan and then take of flight. And this price has it quite annoying to be honest. And I think at this stage, and I want to bring the conversation back to the important factor in this that I don't think at this moment we need more than anything, more than a comprehensive political solution that ensures that Palestinians have these rights and can live with dignity and security and hope for the future next to their Israeli partners. And I think that's important to say, and amidst this chaos, because there should be voices of reasons and these voices of reasons come in the shape of peacebuilders in both sides.

Andrea Chalupa (21:44):

What needs to happen to get us on some viable path to peace?

Avi Meyerstein (21:47):

I think I would take the word wait and take it out of the equation. We can't wait to do anything because even when we're talking about the long-term work to build this strong infrastructure of human connections and trust and solidarity and side-by-side activism for change, that's the tree that we needed to plant 20 years ago. So we cannot wait to do anything. And of course in this moment when there are people dying every single day, we cannot wait to get a ceasefire and a hostage deal, which is in the interest of everybody. There are people alive today who may not be alive tomorrow, and there's no reason for us to let that continue. So I think that's a critical piece, and there's a huge amount of accountability politically within Israel that has yet to happen. Netanyahu has been in charge for 15 of the last 17 years.

(22:47):

At the end of the day, it's hard to imagine that there won't be accountability from Israelis to their leaders for the fact, just from their side of things, that October 7th was able to happen, that the war was carried out the way it was, that Israel has lost a huge amount of solidarity and credibility around the world because of how the last 12 months have transpired and on and on. So I think that's something that's bound to happen eventually, but we can't wait. And what I would say is we, through our network and the rippling outward networks and connections that are all part of a huge ecosystem are building those fresh voices, the new leaders, the solidarity, the relationships, and the sense that there is an alternative pathway. That's the most important thing we can give people is to take advantage of this moment. I was in Israel a couple of weeks ago, unfortunately, I get into Palestine in the West Bank, Wasim and I had hoped to see each other in person.

(23:48):

We didn't because of the situation, which usually we managed to do it. While I was there though, I did get to talk in person with both Israeli Jews and Palestinians. And one day I was sitting with an Israeli mother who lost a son and asked me very candidly, will we ever have peace here? Are there good people on the other side we can have peace with? And the next day, literally, I was speaking with a Palestinian colleague who told me that her son had asked her the same exact questions. And to me, those questions on the one hand are heartbreaking. The fact that people still don't know the answers to that, although given this level of violence, maybe how could they? But on the other hand, we see that as a tentative opening. People are asking questions about a status quo that they accepted for a very long time, and that's the opening that we have to seize.

Terrell Starr (24:41):

Yeah, I want to follow up on that status quo, right? Because I feel like in our country, and this is for both of you for the first time, there is a major social grassroots pushback against that status quo.

Wasim Almasri (24:55):

I think one of the challenges that we see for the current prison Biden administration, it probably will carry to the next US leadership, is the increase in polarization and dehumanization that we see on social media. The US social media in general has become a platform where the Israeli Palestinian conflict is often reduced to harmful stereotypes and one-sided narratives. And I think this polarization doesn't just shape public opinion. It has a direct impact on US foreign policy, whether it's oversimplification and demonization of both Palestinians and Israelis, it have made it harder for us policymaker to navigate a balance approach that support peace building. And I think also that the environment of polarization that we're seeing on social media today has led to policies that either ignore the complexities of the conflict or as we've seen recently, overemphasizes military and security solution, rather than addressing the root causes through diplomacy and grassroots peace building. I'm here hoping that the next US administration will work to rise above this polarization and craft foreign policy that focuses on human dignity and the shared need for peace and security for both Palestinians and Israelis.

Avi Meyerstein (26:10):

If we drill down into it, what's crazy is if you identify everybody of the other tribe, so to speak, as your enemy, you have so many more enemies than if you come to the true realization that most people on your side and most people on the so-called other side, you're actually on the same team. And then it's most people against a handful of very strong, powerful, committed extremists. But you've just flipped the table and now you have a totally different numbers game and the polarization so tempting and so easy when we're in so much pain and trauma, I get it. It's so easy to fall into that. It's comforting in some sick way, but that polarization is keeping us from seeing who our partners are and keeping us on the same side, so to speak, as people who are actually working against our interest. And you start to see, it's interesting, if you roll back before October 7th, before October 7th, inside Israel, the status quo was coming home to roost.

(27:10):

There were hundreds of thousands of people in the streets. It's crazy if you think about the numbers. It was like millions of Americans imagine that millions of Americans on a weekly basis in the streets about something. And it was that the right wing government was trying to basically take down the democracy. And the reason they were doing it was because of this conflict, because they want to be able to annex the West Bank and they want to not have a supreme court in the way. And what was happening was over, I had a long article I worked on for months that I had to throw in the trash unfortunately. But basically we were watching this phenomenon where hundreds of thousands of people in the streets, people in the military, which is a sacrosanct institution in Israel, were refusing to serve because of this. It was unheard of.

(27:56):

And towards the latter part of that, we were starting to see people connecting the dots. Not only did they realize they were opposed to this judicial reform because what it would do to them as citizens in Israel, but they realized where it was coming from. They realized it was driven by this extremist view of the conflict. And so that connection of dots was critical. And just as that was happening October 7th and the war, I think what speaks to the power of those kinds of movements, and we've seen it inside Israel where, let's be honest, Palestinians haven't had elections since 2006. It is not simple or easy for Palestinians to mobilize, and there's a lot of blame to go around for that. It's unacceptable. But if we're looking at the here and now, who's going to be marching in the streets, it's much easier for Israelis to do that.

(28:43):

And so one thing to do is to put the wind at the back of the people who are doing that more and more every week because there are things, for example, look at the, you asked about where we can go from here. There's a deal on the table. There's a deal on the table that a majority of people would support that would pair together regional normalization and security cooperation, basically taking a security umbrella that includes Israel, the Sunni Arab countries and the Palestinians in their own state where they all bind themselves together for security purposes. Contra Iran, which is basically fomenting all of this contrary to most people's interests. So that's on the table, and it would involve ending the war. It would involve a pathway to a Palestinian state, it would bring them the hostages, et cetera, et cetera. And the goal is to get enough people to really embrace that so you can get there.

Terrell Starr (29:32):

The Israelis are the ones that we see protesting, but you all in the West Bank don't have the opportunity because of what's happening there. The media told us one narrative about Palestinians that they all support. These extremist groups are not willing to live in peace with Israelis. I want to understand how the diversity of thought amongst Palestinians about moving forward as best they can.

Wasim Almasri (29:58):

It's a simple mechanism of manufacturing radicalism, to be honest. It's a combination of entrapment, an absence of a political solution and political imagination. And if you put this combination together, you have a generation that hasn't been able to vote in election, hasn't been able to practice democracy, hasn't been able to live a normal life or travel freely anywhere. They want to go, have an experienced life to the full that's like we want them to. And if they can't imagine a future where they could live and prosperity in peace, then there's other alternatives that they find they might find more appealing. And I think sitting in my home and watching hundreds of my Israeli partners, friends working on the other side, protesting on the street every day to end the war, to bring the hostages home, it just really brings my idea about what this field and what peace building in Palestine Israel have done in the past 20 plus years. I've seen grassroots peace building and how it can pave the way for recovery. And I still think that with all this intention, with the absence of bravery, leadership and the will of the people and having obviously international support to succeed, we could commit to long-term solutions that not only can address immediate crisis, but the underlying issues that have field this conflict for decades. This experience, like I said, is basically the tool, the box that creates how you'd radicalize individuals. And I think having a political horizon is the answer to that.

Andrea Chalupa (31:32):

What kind of response have you had from Republican members of Congress towards your work and also the Biden administration?

Avi Meyerstein (31:40):

I think one of the things that we've been proud of is that since the beginning we've been able to build and maintain bipartisan support for our work. I've been doing this since the bush years and we've seen government change hands multiple times. The fact that we were able to build that bipartisan support meant that the support for this work and the resources were able to continue even when other programs were getting cut, even when government changed hands. And B, I would add, it has been a tool and a pathway to expose people who otherwise aren't getting any exposure to this kind of thing. People that otherwise aren't meeting or hearing any Palestinian perspectives to actually engage with and understand and come to terms with what all that is. So that's been our strategy. I think it's on the whole, it's been very effective. It's something we're doing.

(32:34):

As I said earlier, we're doing it globally. We had in June, after a three year campaign, the G seven leaders, the US and Britain and Germany and on all put out a statement where they put peacebuilding, civil society peace building at the center of what needs to happen next and committed to institutionalizing it. That took three years of work, but that's a big institutional push. And now we have it agreed to, now we have to turn it into action. It took us 10 years to get a law passed in the US Congress to bring $250 million over five years to really invest in this work. And now that's coming up to be renewed and it has strong bipartisan support. So speaking to wide audiences to us is very important. It's something also that we think is important on the ground. This can't be the work of isolated people who are already true believers. We have to be able to reach across a fairly wide spectrum so that we can reach people who don't know about this, who may not believe in it, who might be quite skeptical, but we know from doing this for many years that there are ways and there are pathways to talk to them and to open this to them, and we need to be inclusive as we do that.

Wasim Almasri (33:46):

And I want to add to this because Avi mentioned that G7, this is, there's an opportunity now for the President Biden administration at its near the end of the term for the US to play a larger key role in securing the legacy of peaceful, if you might call it 10 as well, there is significant steps to be support a grassroots level work, and also to advocate for policies that protects civil society organization and ensure that that work have the resources that they have. And on the G seven, the upcoming summit happening in Canada in 2025, obviously a critical opportunity for the international community to play a decisive role, if you might call it in Peacebuilding for the G seven nations, having a global influence prioritize a more inclusive approach, as Abby mentioned to Israel and Palestine peace, one that centers basically civil society and grassroots organization like our members. Because for far too long, I think what the formula has been missing is peace efforts have focused solely on political elites and sidelined the VA people who are affected by the conflict. And we've seen in successful peace processes in other regions like Northern Ireland and South Africa, demonstrate that civil society must be in a core of any strategy. And I think this could be a great opportunity to change that by showing support our civil society organization in peace building in Palestine and Israel, and help scale up the funding for these organization and these incredible individuals.

Avi Meyerstein (35:17):

Just take one example of what we didn't do before, and we could have in our organization and school system called Hand in Hand, it works inside Israel's borders. It's basically 50% Palestinian Arab citizens and 50% Jewish citizens of the state. They started in the late nineties with one school and 50 kids. Today they have six schools and 2000 kids and thousands of alumni and 10,000 people who are part of the community because of families and parents and so forth. They have a plan where they could get to 25 schools. Imagine if you roll back and we had 25 schools in 1997. Think about all of the young leaders who today would be in their mid twenties, who would've had this transformative experience of solidarity and understanding. And rather than, or you can't even begin to fathom the potential impact of that. And that's just one organization.

(36:11):

So our big message is it's very tempting for people to say, oh, we have to do this first and then that we'll get to it. And what we're saying is we should have done it yesterday. If you are not going to do anything else right now, which unfortunately we've seen many days of not doing anything else because we're frozen and it's killing us, we're really killing people. But if you're not going to do anything else, at least do this. This is a path towards someplace else. This puts different conditions in the hands of the leaders of tomorrow.

Terrell Starr (36:38):

What's the personal sacrifice you've both made? If we were to look at social media, people who are doing the work that you do, you're not a good Jew and you're not a good Muslim because you're turning on your people. What is inside of you that says, I'm going to go against I guess the social grains. I'm going to go against this wall of cynicism and make my world a better place and see the good inside of this other human being who society and even my own at times, my visceral teachings in my own experiences tells me that I'm supposed to be against. I'm curious about both of your stories to becoming the people that you are, because I think that's a lesson for all of us.

Wasim Almasri (37:22):

That's a very difficult question to think about at this time.

Avi Meyerstein (37:25):

Alright, I'll buy you some time. I mean, in my case, it's a lot less risky, let's say, because it's not a life and death situation most of the time walking around America. And so I have the privilege of taking these positions. The worst thing that can happen to me is moderate to severe discomfort, walking around my own community, family and so forth. But I will say, actually, I don't get that very often. The biggest challenge is opening people's eyes and their hearts and their minds. And I'll tell you, I've been feeling that especially this past year, because I've seen how people, especially traumatized people, which both of our peoples are so quickly retreat into a very natural but unfortunate defensive crouch. And all of a sudden you have tunnel vision and all you can see is your own threats coming at you and what you have to worry about yourself.

(38:15):

And you can't see what's happening to the other, so to speak. The problem is you're working with half the information and it's hard to make the best choices. In that case, you actually make choices that are not always in your best interest. For me, I am trying to fulfill what was promised to me by my own community. What was promised to me was my grandparents, their families were murdered in the Holocaust. And that was on the backs of 2000 years of Jewish history where basically Jews were not welcome anywhere ultimately, ever since they were expelled from the land and that they returned there and there was this promise that they could live there in peace, insecurity. That's what I was taught growing up. I didn't learn a lot about Palestinians, but that was the half of the story that I wasn't taught very much about.

(38:59):

But when I finally did and when I came to terms with a lot of real truths, what I came to find was I actually have two families over there. I have the family that I'm related to most immediately by blood, and then I have my cousins and my friends. It turns out that our fates are bound up together, that my first cousins will never have peace and security in Israel until my 10th cousins in Palestine do. We really have to realize that promise and it's totally achievable. That's what keeps me going, and especially the relationships. And I think once you've built friends on the other side and taken them into your life, you can't undo that. You can't unsee that. They're always on your mind and you realize you have this commitment to them wherever you are in the world to try to fix this.

Wasim Almasri (39:47):

That's a very good answer. I think at this stage of my life, becoming a father when I was in Gaza and now having four children and raising them in the West Bank, I'll say that I'm defined by that by being a father and an activist, a father first and activist second. And I am usually driven by hope, a word that's usually people think that you're naive, but hope that we can break from the cycle of violence and trauma and loss that has defined the lives of so many Palestinians and Israelis and hope here. I don't think it's passive. It is active. It's a form of resistance against that despair. And it must be paired with a political imagination. That belief that we can build the future different from the one that we've known all our life. The future, I imagine, is one where peace is built from the ground up. Where young people, maybe my children one day, who have inherited the trauma of this conflict are given the tools and opportunities to shape a different reality. And I think through the work, waking up every morning and looking at what my partners and our members are doing, I've seen how civil society is already leading this way and building this relationship and this trust that is very necessary for peace.

Andrea Chalupa (41:19):

When to join the conversation, shape the show by becoming a member of Gaslit Nation on Patreon. Join our community of listeners for exclusive q and a sessions, bonus shows. Get all episodes ad free invites to live events and more. Most importantly, connect with other listeners in our group chat and committees, planting seeds of change. Sign up at patreon.com/gaslit.

(41:44):

Gaslit Nation hosts resilience political salons every Monday at 4:00 PM Eastern Can't make it live. Recordings are available to our community on Patreon. Salons are your space to vent, ask questions, and connect with other listeners who also really, really hate Nazis. To help Ukraine with urgently needed humanitarian aid. Join me in donating to ROM free ukraine@rasmfreeukraine.org to help refugees in conflict zones donate to Doctors Without borders@doctorswithoutborders.org. And if you want to help critically endangered orangutans already under pressure from the palm oil industry, donate to the Orangutan project@theorangutanproject.org.

(42:26):

Gaslit Nation is produced by Andrea Chalupa. Our editing wizard is Nicholas Torres and our associate producer is Carlin Dagel. If you like what we do, leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us reach more listeners and check out our Patreon. It keeps us going. Original music and Gast Nation is produced by David Whitehead, Martin Berg, Nick Farr, Damien Ariaga, and Carlin Daigle. Our logo design was donated to us by Hamish Smite of the New York based firm order. Thank you so much. Hamish Lin Nation would like to thank our supporters at the producer level on Pat and hire Ice Bear is defiant. Lily Wachowski, Abby Zavos, Sherry Escobar, Sydney Davies. Work for Better Prep For Trouble. John Shoal. Larry Gossan, Ann Bertino. David East Joseph Mara Jr. Mark Mark, Sean Berg, Kristin Custer, Kevin Gannon, Sandra Collins, Katie Urus, James D. Leonard. Leo Chalupa. Carol Goad, Marcus j Trent, Joe Darcy and Marshall. DL Sinfield. Nicole Spear Abby Road. Jans Trep. Ramond. Rasmussen. Mark. Mark, Sarah Gray, Diana Gallagher, Jared Lombardo, and Tanya Chalupa. Thank you to everyone who supports the show. We could not make Gaslit Nation without you.