The Apprentice: The Roy Cohn Playbook
Attack! Attack! Attack! Deny! Deny! Deny! Before Russia and Roger Ailes, Trump rose to power with the help of mega-lawyer and mega-villain Roy Cohn. That playbook is on full display in Trump’s cabinet picks—a confederacy of lawless kleptocrats. Roy Cohn would be beaming with pride.
Gabriel Sherman, the investigative journalist and screenwriter, joins Gaslit Nation. Sherman is the writer and executive producer of the new true-crime American horror story, The Apprentice, starring Jeremy Strong as Cohn, Sebastian Stan as Trump, and Maria Bakalova as Ivana Trump, directed by Ali Abbasi. When the film was released just before the election, Trump attacked Sherman, inciting a wave of anti-Semitic harassment. Trump’s goon squad of lawyers failed to stop the film's release, despite their best efforts. They did manage to scare away all but the most morally courageous film distributors. The Apprentice chillingly brings to life Cohn’s twisted mentorship of Trump. Our conversation with Sherman took place shortly before the 2024 election and remains an urgent reminder of what we’re up against. The good news is that we can apply the same defiant strategy against Cohn’s devil apprentice.
We here at Gaslit Nation wish you and yours a restful and peaceful holiday for those who celebrate American Thanksgiving. For our Patreon subscribers at the Democracy Defender ($10/month) level and higher, be sure to get your questions in for our listener Q&A, produced thanks to your questions and comments. To our Patreon community, see you at our Monday 4pm ET political salon over Zoom. Joining us this coming Monday is Susan Greenhalgh, the Senior Advisor on Election Security to Free Speech For People, on their efforts to protect the 2024, including through recounts. If you haven’t joined a committee yet, check out more info on those projects here. Thank you to everyone who supports Gaslit Nation—we could not make this show without you!
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Show Notes:
The featured song for November 2024 is “2 Red Cups” by Evrette Allen. Check out her work here! Submit your own music to be featured on Gaslit Nation! We’d love to hear from you!: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1-d_DWNnDQFYUMXueYcX5ZVsA5t2RN09N8PYUQQ8koq0/edit?ts=5fee07f6&gxids=7628
The Apprentice (Trailer) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvPRxy9kmSg
The Loudest Voice in the Room: How the Brilliant, Bombastic Roger Ailes Built Fox News--And Divided a Country https://bookshop.org/p/books/the-loudest-voice-in-the-room-how-the-brilliant-bombastic-roger-ailes-built-fox-news-and-divided-a-country-gabriel-sherman/11736897?ean=9780812982732
Computer Scientists: Breaches of Voting System Software Warrant Recounts to Ensure Election Verification https://freespeechforpeople.org/computer-scientists-breaches-of-voting-system-software-warrant-recounts-to-ensure-election-verification/
Everett Allen (singing) (00:12):
Dangerous beauty like a cat on a, he drank Italian coffee with French whipped cream. This reality baby is not what it seems. Somebody else's dream and one brown bottle, two red more don't. He is so straight. He keeps his girls in line. The big one's black and the little one is not, there's no, just do what you feel this lasts. The next one is don't.
Andrea Chalupa (01:47):
Our opening song was Two Red Cups by the singing angel. That is Everett Allen. It was submitted by her label, atomic Sound Record Company with this creative statement. This song is about a conversation with a little bit of inspiration, which is provided by some brown juice, as they say in the south. We'll link to Everett Allen's social media. In the show notes, you can discover more of her haunting music. Welcome to Gaslit Nation. I am your host, Andrea Chalupa, a journalist and filmmaker and the writer and producer of the journalistic thriller, Mr. Jones, about Stalin's genocide famine in Ukraine. The film the Kremlin does not want you to see, so be sure to watch it because in this time of disinformation, Mr. Jones reminds us there is only one truth. Everything else is just an opinion, a belief. There's only one truth. A fact is a fact.
(02:39):
Truth is truth. And we stand in our truth to protect us in this moment that we are in to help an extraordinary investigative journalist who has fought for the truth for years and is out with a film that he wrote that earned him death threats from the MAGA cult on the show this week is Gabriel Sherman talking about his film, the Apprentice. You may recall when Trump was announced the winner, the Russians responded by blasting images of his wife in her underwear and everyone's like, wait, what is Russia doing? And then Petru, who is a right hand man of Putin in the Kremlin, was reminding Trump flat out, we made you. We brought you to power bragging about Russiagate, which so many on the far left and the far right have denied even happened. And then you had Medvedev making a crack at Trump saying, it'd be a shame if what happened to JFK happens to you.
(03:41):
So why might the Russians be so aggressive to Trump when he just became the most powerful person in the world and is going to be in a place to pay them back for the decades of investment they've put in him? Remember Craig Unger, the investigative journalist wrote two books, House of Trump, House of Putin, as well as Amercian Kompromat of Putin. There was the bipartisan senate intelligence report looking at all the ways that Russia and many figures in the Trump campaign close to Trump worked together to come to power. In 2016, there was the Mueller report, lots of brilliant investigative journalism experts around the world calling all this out. The idiot sons Don Jr. And Eric admitting on record that they depended on Russian money all this time. So why might the Russians suddenly sound nervous? Well, as this interview with Gabe Sherman reminds us, Trump boost and discarded his mentor, the powerful lawyer Roy Cohn, who made Trump the Russians who are very astute at the psychology of what they're up against.
(04:49):
They know that Trump has it in him to discard them too. Trump doesn't need the Russians anymore, and the Russians know that. Now, here's the trailer for The Apprentice. A film that shows the Rory Cohn playbook and how Trump uses it. What is the Rory Cohn playbook? Attack, attack, attack, attack. So let's use that against him. How do we attack you? Set up your automated donations every month to groups like Run for something that are helping bring in a new generation of talent to run for office, to rebuild the system from the groups up. Have your representatives on the state level on speed dial, get ready to primary reps that aren't serving democracy and fighting with urgency. We are on the attack now. We are not going to lay down and die for them like the Russian opposition. We are all in the fight of our lives now. We're going to do it Ukrainian style with creativity, with defiance, and we're going to win. So we're using that Roy Cohen playbook against them. We are on the attack. And now here's a trailer for the Apprentice and a discussion with the great Gabriel Sherman.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Hello. This is Donald Trump from Mr. Cohn. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
Donald who?
Speaker 4 (06:06):
Roy Cohen. Nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (06:07):
The Roy Cohen from all the papers. Yeah, you're brutal.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Guilty as charged.
Speaker 5 (06:14):
Roy Cohen is a crook. He's been indicted three times.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
I'm going to let you in a little secret. People, they hire me because I'm a winner.
Speaker 5 (06:22):
How do you win?
Speaker 4 (06:25):
The first rule is the simplest attack, attack, attack. It's going to be the finest building in the country, in the world. It's going to be his fixed, spectacular rule two, admit nothing. Deny everything. You can beat the US government?
(06:45):
Rule three, no matter what happens, you claim victory and never admit the defeat. I can record everything in case I need it.
Speaker 5 (06:53):
Well, that's illegal.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
You have to be willing to do anything to anyone to win. There are two types of people. There are winners. They're on over-leveraged and have debt up to your ears. I know I'm talking
(07:10):
Have, look at yourself. You're getting ugly.
(07:11):
Don't you forget I made you. We have a brand new campaign slogan. Let's make America great again.
(07:25):
Well, I like the again part..
Andrea Chalupa (07:31):
All right. The truth is stranger than fiction. What didn't make it into the film that blew your mind? During research,
Gabriel Sherman (07:39):
We shot one scene. It didn't make the final cut, but I loved it. It took place at Roy Cohn's country House in Greenwich, Connecticut where he would go when he left the city. And I learned in my research that at his country house, he kept pet llamas in the yard. And so there was this lovely scene where Jeremy Strong, who plays Roy, is out in the grass feeding his llamas when Trump arrives. And I don't know that image of somebody as brutal as Roy was, having the soft spot for his fuzzy animals was, I found kind of bizarre.
Andrea Chalupa (08:12):
And you show in the film the scene of Trump raping his first wife, Ivana Trump, and that's based of course on their divorce records. What was the decision like to show that in the film?
Gabriel Sherman (08:28):
For me as the writer, that was always essential that that scene or version of it stayed in the film. Trump has been incredibly accused of sexual assault by more than a dozen women. I saw some headlines today that I think it's over 20 women have alleged Trump abused or groped them. And the writer, Eugene Carroll won hundreds of millions of dollars because a New York jury found that Trump was liable for raping her in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room in the 1990s. So there's so much evidence out there of Trump's misogyny and predatory behavior that I felt that a film that explored his origin story that didn't grapple with that wouldn't be truly an honest look at this character. I felt the character of Donald Trump is somebody that would do this behavior. And obviously there's a historical record that supports it. So I just felt that it had to be in the movie. And in fact, the details that are in Ivana Trump's 1990 divorce deposition that described this attack are actually more gruesome than what we portrayed in the films. I felt that it was more than fair to include it in the movie.
Andrea Chalupa (09:39):
I know from even having a minor intimacy scene in my film, Mr. Jones, how uncomfortable those are to shoot on set. So I can't even imagine what this was like.
Gabriel Sherman (09:49):
Yeah, no, I was on set that day. It was a closed set. Of course, Maria Bakalova, who plays Ivana, is just so incredibly brave to do that scene. And Sebastian Stan, who plays Trump, he was both of those, both characters, they had to go to places in that scene that I couldn't even imagine doing. We had an intimacy coordinator on set and a stunt coordinator. So the entire scene was rehearsed and choreographed. But even with all that planning, it's still, you have to do it. So I mean, obviously I'm grateful that they were such risk-taking actors.
Andrea Chalupa (10:24):
And I can't imagine how as a writer you had to get into the heart and mind of Donald Trump, someone who is disgusting, someone who is emotionally exhausting, someone who may even be the antichrist. How did you feel and inhabiting that character in order to bring him to life in a way that isn't a cartoon villain?
Gabriel Sherman (10:48):
A couple of things. I want to start out by saying, there was this podcast that Ezra Klein did in the New York Times the other day that I thought was one of the smartest things written about Trump's personality. There's just been so many people who have done these armchair diagnoses of Trump. He put into words something that I kind of had intuitively come to when I was writing him as a character. And what Ezra was saying is that Trump lacks inhibition. Basically. His character is defined by somebody who has absolutely no filter and just does whatever he wants, whenever he wants. And that's basically how I think of him and thought of him when I was writing the movie. Obviously at the start of the movie, he is much more insecure and his personality is unformed, and it's through his relationship with Roy Cohn that he learns to become this monster.
(11:35):
When I was writing the character the way I imagined Trump was somebody who just, it's imagined going through the world and having absolutely no care for what you say or do, how it affects other people. And I have to say, I'm almost embarrassed to say this, but when you're writing the character and you're actually living in that space is something kind of exhilarating about just having your character do whatever he or she wants. Because I like to think I have a conscience. I go through the world caring very much like how I'm affecting other people, but there was something liberating about having just this complete freedom to do whatever you want. Obviously I know it's wrong, but when I was in the writing, I could see, and I guess that's maybe what Trump supporters find so appealing about him. Just somebody who doesn't give a fuck and just does whatever he wants. So that was the mental space I tried to get into when I was, there's a scene we just talked about, the sexual assault scene with Ivana. That scene starts out with Trump saying to her, I'm just not attracted to you anymore. No remorse, no fear about how that's going to hurt her feelings. And it's, it's such a different way to go through the world that I would write these scenes and I would kind of come out of it and be like, God, this guy has no, has no conscience
Andrea Chalupa (12:50):
Freedom. Freedom from empathy.
Gabriel Sherman (12:52):
Yeah.
Andrea Chalupa (12:53):
Where do you think that comes from? I mean, when you're talking, I was thinking of the Great Gatsby, careless people crashing, destroying things and moving on with their, because they have the freedom of their money. Is it because he's a trust fund kid? He inherited all of Fred Trump's wealth and real estate empire. Where does that inhibition come from, do you think?
Gabriel Sherman (13:12):
Yeah, I mean, clearly that Donald had a golden safety net. His father bails him out throughout his life. We have a scene late in the film when the bankers are Trump to repay these loans, and he goes to his father who's dying of Alzheimer's and tries to swindle the family fortune out from under him, which is a true story that actually happened in 1999 when Fred was suffering from Alzheimer and dementia. Trump rewrote the family trust to get control of it, and his siblings didn't speak to him for years after that. Yeah, it's the freedom from empathy. He makes people feel like clearly his wealth and his privilege allowed him to do that. I think New York and the specific culture of New York in the 1970s and eighties that was this corrupt, the city, was kind of lawless, rewarded somebody with Donald's personality to thrive in this kind of urban chaos.
Andrea Chalupa (14:03):
What impact did Roy Cohn have on Donald Trump?
Gabriel Sherman (14:07):
Gosh, I mean, that's kind of the essential question of the movie, right? When I came up with the idea, because I had covered Donald Trump's first presidential campaign for New York Magazine back in 2015, I started writing about him and things. People like Roger Stone who had known Trump since the eighties, they would tell me things like, he's winning the election because he's using Roy Cohn's lessons. Or Donald Trump would give a rally and another advisor would say to me, he sounds exactly like Roy when he talks. And it kind of came to me in a flash that there could be a movie that explores this one relationship. It's an archetypal story. On the one hand, it's a Frankenstein story, Roy, the scientist creates this monster that he loses control of. It's also like a Pygmalion story of a makeover of somebody who is unpolished, who is taught how to move through the world. So I just think that in terms of his political strategy, the three rules that Ro Cone teaches him are essential to how Donald Trump has operated as a politician and as a businessman, but clearly as a politician. His three rules are attack, attack, attack, deny everything, admit nothing. And the third rule is always claim victory. And I wrote the script. I finished the first draft in 2018. It's obviously like two years before January 6th, but the movie kind of telegraphed how Donald Trump was never going to admit that he lost the election.
Andrea Chalupa (15:34):
I read in an interview you gave that you suspect, and obviously there's no proof yet of this, that Roy Cohn may have been in love with Donald Trump and that he certainly had a type and that was blonde blue eyed, and that was a young Trump.
Gabriel Sherman (15:50):
Yeah. I mean, I think that the sexual chemistry between them, it was unrequited and the film leaves it ambiguous as to, I didn't want it to be overt, but I think from all of my research, I think it's entirely plausible that Roy was in love with Donald, at least at first when he obviously at some point it became clear that Donald wasn't going to return the favor, so their relationship became more of a father son dynamic. You have to think it's like, it's pretty strange, right? Roy Cohn was at the top of his power in 1973 when he met Donald Trump. Like his client list was who's who of New York society. And you have to ask yourself, why would Roy Cone take this outer borough, son of a real estate developer? Trump was from Brooklyn and Queens had no status in Manhattan. Why would Roy suddenly take him under his wing and spend all of his time with him?
(16:42):
So I think that's a layer to their relationship that I think is really fascinating and also sort of heartbreaking. I mean, on one level, you can also look at this movie as like a love story and a tragic one because Roy gives his love to Donald and hopes it's going to be repaid and it's not. Roy Cohn is widely regarded as one of the most evil people of the 20th century. And by the end of the film, I've had people come up to me and say, you made me feel bad for Roy Cohn. And I laugh because it is true. Like Donald really abused Roy's generosity. And if somebody as bad as Roy Cohn could be hurt by Donald Trump, it makes you wonder, well, what does that say about Trump? And so I found that when I was writing it, a really powerful way to illustrate how I think Trump in many ways is worse than Roy ever was.
Andrea Chalupa (17:30):
I have to ask this. I remember watching the Trump Putin, Helsinki Hell summit, and Putin was very much in charge, and Trump was almost hiding behind Putin. You saw what appeared like a father in relationship. Given what you know about Trump and the dynamics and how heavily he was dependent Roy Cohn for a time, what do you make of Trump and Putin?
Gabriel Sherman (17:54):
I haven't studied their relationship so closely to know other than what I read in the news, and I know the Trump campaign people, I mean, I know Trump world and Trump sources very well. I don't know if it's as direct. I don't know if it would be totally parallel to the Roy Cohn relationship. I think Trump is a fan of Putin. I think Trump clearly wishes that he could have that unchecked power, that Putin exercises in Russia, Trump's politics have been asked the last few days, what are Trump's politics? So what are the politics of the movie? And I think the degree to which Trump has any politics, it's not left or right politics. It's like the politics of strength. There's a monologue that Trump gives towards the end of the film in the final, the final scene of the film where he talks to his ghost writer Tony Schwartz, about the world, is that there's killers and there's losers. And the only thing that matters is winning. I think that is basically Trump's political philosophy is whatever it takes to win. And clearly Putin operates that way. I think it's more of like he's in awe of Putin's power and wishes. Maybe he's trying to learn the ways in which he could exercise or use that kind of power here at home.
Andrea Chalupa (19:06):
Why do you think Trump and Cone got away with their corruption for so long?
Gabriel Sherman (19:10):
That's a great question as well. I mean, I think New York of that time in the mid seventies to the late eighties was a time that the city was much more corrupt than it is now. It was a time of backroom deals. It was also a time when the media had, it was obviously long before the internet, and so the print newspapers had so much power. And Roy Cohn had famously had page six on his speed dial and could use the gossip columns to fight his enemies and push his agenda. And so I think this culture was suited for corrupt people like Trump and Roy to operate. It would be a little bit, I think, more difficult. Trump's thrives now, but I feel like obviously he already has his power. I think it would be harder for somebody in today's culture with everyone has a phone in their pocket, a camera in their pocket, and social media to have that kind of level of just abject corruption. People say about Roy that he was a lawyer who had contempt for the law was phrase people used. He was essentially an avowed criminal. And I think it was so specific to that. I think one of the things I wanted the movie to accomplish was to really capture that time of 1970s New York.
Andrea Chalupa (20:25):
What do you think Roy Cohen would think of Trump now?
Gabriel Sherman (20:27):
I think he would be happy. I mean, I think he would be impressed because he's using Roy's Roy's rules on the biggest stage there is. Roy had incredible amount of political power, but it was always slightly off camera. He was Joe McCarthy's chief lawyer during the Army McCarthy hearings in the 1950s. And later on, Roy was a confidant of Richard Nixon and was close with the Ronald Reagan White House. But he never had that unfettered access to power to the Oval Office. The way if Roy was still alive that he might with Trump's, I think Roy would be impressed that his lessons and his protege went all the way to the top.
Andrea Chalupa (21:12):
As a journalist, you have to triple check your facts. You work with fact checkers. What was that process like having to take poetic license in the film?
Gabriel Sherman (21:22):
I think screenwriting is, it's a totally different muscle than in journalism. It's complimentary, but it's very different. And what I like to think about when I'm writing dramatically and when I'm writing fiction is that it's kind of an invitation to go into the rooms that I could never get into as a reporter, like as a journalist, you are limited by what you can find out from sources or documents. And by its nature, there's just a certain amount of things that you can, there's only a certain amount of things that you can actually know. We don't have, as journalists, we don't have subpoena power. We're not law enforcement. Nobody has to talk to a reporter the way someone might have to talk to the police or the FBI. So we have to use our wits and all of our other skills to find things out. And at the end of the day, we print only what we know.
(22:18):
But as a screenwriter, I felt like I could then go even further and go into those rooms where I maybe can't go as a journalist. But I can imagine, based on everything that I know, how these characters would act and what they would say and what they would do. I've been interviewing Trump on and off for 20 years. My first job in and journalism was as a real estate reporter for the New York Observer. And so he's this kind of character that has been living in the back of my mind for all these years. And so I've accumulated all of this kind of knowledge that I felt I could then put to use in a creative way.
Andrea Chalupa (22:53):
And in terms of your experience also being a writer on the Loudest Voice starring Russell Crow playing sexual predator, Roger Ailes, the mad genius behind Fox News, you're also a producer on that, and you appear as yourself in a scene playing Gabe Sherman, the journalist hunting down the story. What was that experience like?
Gabriel Sherman (23:15):
That was surreal. When we were in the writer's room, when we were creating the show, it was surreal because I had to start talking about myself in the third person because there's me, but then there's this character of me that we were writing into one of the episodes. And so that was surreal when I had to just talk about this other Gabe that is based is me, but it's not me. And then the other thing that was surreal was I remember the first day we started shooting that episode. I went to set and I met the actor Fran Kranz, who played me. And it just was weird because he had
Andrea Chalupa (23:54):
Wait, that wasn't you playing you?
Gabriel Sherman (23:56):
No.
Andrea Chalupa (23:57):
I thought that was you.
Gabriel Sherman (23:59):
It's funny, right? Well, I'm flattered because Fran is much, much better looking than I am. No, it wasn't me. It was an actor. We
Andrea Chalupa (24:08):
Must be a method actor.
Gabriel Sherman (24:10):
Yeah, he did a really good job. And so yeah, it was just surreal to see how somebody else sees myself is that I was like, wait, am I really like that?
Andrea Chalupa (24:20):
Yes, yes. I thought that was you when I was watching it. And fun fact, I went into labor watching that series. That's what kind of impact your work had.
Gabriel Sherman (24:29):
Wow. Yeah,
Andrea Chalupa (24:31):
It's an intense one. It's brilliantly done.
Gabriel Sherman (24:33):
Stressful. Yeah.
Andrea Chalupa (24:34):
People have to watch it. So what are your insights into Fox News and the role that it played in getting us to this current crisis point in American democracy?
Gabriel Sherman (24:44):
Yeah, I mean, another great question. I think without, there's no doubt that it destroyed the foundation of the separation between politics and news. Roger Ailes used to say that when he said fair and balanced, he didn't mean that Fox News was equally weighted between both sides, that he saw Fox News as the quote balance on the rest of the media, which basically justified doing anything it took to advance a right-wing agenda. And Fox was pivotal to giving Donald Trump a platform to go from being a tabloid businessman to a right wing political figure. They gave in around 2010 or 11, Ailes gave Trump a weekly call in slot on the morning show Fox and Friends to just call in and riff on the news. And Trump basically used Fox News as a focus group to try out his different political attack lines. And it was on Fox News that Trump incubated the racist birther conspiracy that claimed that Obama was not, in fact, born in Hawaii. So without Fox News, Trump wouldn't have had that direct access to the right-wing base the way he did. Yeah. And we explore that in loudest voice in the limited series on Showtime. The final few episodes explores how, again, it's a little bit like the Ro cone Trump relationship, like ale's benefits from Trump, but then Trump becomes almost bigger than Fox loses control of it.
Andrea Chalupa (26:18):
Did you get threatened at any time during the making of the film when you were hunting down interviews?
Gabriel Sherman (26:23):
Thankfully, no. I kept the movie pretty low profile. My producers announced that I would be writing it way back when I first sold the idea, but no one seemed to really quite pay attention to that. And then I didn't post about it on social media. I didn't want the politics to become an distraction on the movie, and especially once we got to casting and then we got into production, I really wanted the actors to have this creative space and the freedom to do the work and not be distracted by Trump tweeting at them. Yeah, no, I didn't get any real threats. I mean, I did get threats and violent threats on social media once Trump attacked the movie after its release. He called me a low life talentless hack.
Andrea Chalupa (27:08):
Which isn't true.
Gabriel Sherman (27:09):
A friend of mine printed T-shirts that I now have that on my T-shirt. So I got pretty disturbing anti-Semitic threats after that. No, thankfully during all through the creative part of the process, it was quiet.
Andrea Chalupa (27:22):
It seems in many ways, we're living in the hangover of the Reagan revolution. Greed is good even at the expense of democracy. How do you see us getting out of this crisis, if ever?
Gabriel Sherman (27:34):
Yeah. It's like on the one hand, we are at the end of the Reagan Revolution. But on the other hand, Reagan added tremendous amount of debt with the military buildup to end the Cold War. But it's like Trump is not a small government conservative in the way Reagan modeled himself. Trump has bragged about wanting to expand social security and put in tariffs. He's against free trade. So it's almost like it's just become kind of nihilistic that there's no consistent ideology. On the one hand, Trump wants to slash taxes, but then he wants to spend all this money. And so it's almost like he's running the country. He ran his bankrupt casinos. There's literally no cohesion to his ideas. And he added something like $8 trillion to the federal debt when he was president. When I think of Ronald Reagan, I think of the Heritage Foundation and the small government conservatives who want to get rid of all of these federal agencies and cut taxes. And it's like Trump takes some of that. He takes the tax cutting part, but he didn't take the cutting spending part. When I see people say the Republican Party is the party of Reagan, it isn't really anymore.
Andrea Chalupa (28:49):
No. And the Heritage Foundation wants to establish a dictatorship with Project 2025
Everett Allen (singing) (29:06):
Dangerous Beauty like a cat on beam, he drank Italian coffee with French whipped cream. He says, reality baby is not what it seems. Somebody else wrong one brown bottle, two red. Don't me. He's so straight. He keeps his girls alive. The big ones black and the little one is not, there's no Do what you feel this last. The next one is, I'm stuck by the of Tree Gone. Won't go. Right. Don't blame me. Can't one Brown. ...
Andrea Chalupa (32:43):
Our discussion continues, and you can get access to that by signing up at the Truth Teller level or higher on Patreon. Gaslight Nation hosts come as you are political salons every Monday at 4:00 PM Eastern can't make it live. Recordings are available to our community on Patreon. Our salons are your space to vent, ask questions, and connect with other listeners who also really, really hate Nazis to help Ukraine with urgently needed humanitarian aid. Join me in donating to ROM for ukraine@romfreeukraine.org to help refugees in conflict zones donate to Doctors Without borders@doctorswithoutborders.org. And if you want to help critically endangered orangutans already under pressure from the palm oil industry, donate to The Orangutan project@theorangutanproject.org. Gaslit Nation is produced by Andrea Chalupa. Our editing wizard is Nicholas Torres, and our associate Producer is Carlin Daigle. If you like what we do, leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us reach more listeners and check at our Patreon.
(33:44):
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