Can the Free World Survive Trump and Putin?

This week’s special guest Adrian Karatnycky has been on the frontlines for decades fighting for democracy both at home and abroad. In his critically acclaimed book Battleground Ukraine, Adrian traces Ukraine’s struggle for independence from the fall of the Soviet Union to Russia's genocidal invasion today, drawing important lessons for protecting democracies worldwide. He has worked alongside civil rights legend Bayard Rustin and the AFL-CIO, the largest federation of unions in America. He also supported Poland’s Solidarity movement, which helped bring down the Iron Curtain, and played a key role in preserving Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty in the 1990s, when many thought the Cold War had ended. 

In part one of their discussion, Andrea and Adrian explore how Europe and the free world can survive the chaos of Trump’s America First isolationism and Russia’s weaponized corruption and election interference. In part two, they discuss the PayPal Mafia’s war on Ukraine as part of a broader global assault on "wokeism" (a.k.a. empathy and democracy), Adrian’s impressions of meeting Curtis Yarvin, and how the war in Ukraine can ultimately end.

A big thank you to everyone who joined the Gaslit Nation Salon hosted by our Security Committee, which shared valuable insights on protecting our digital worlds in these dystopian times. The recording will be available soon on Patreon. Our next salon is Monday, April 14 at 4pm ET, featuring Patrick Guarasci, chief political strategist for Judge Susan Crawford, discussing their campaign’s victory against Elon Musk in the pivotal Wisconsin Supreme Court race. The Zoom link will be available on Patreon Monday morning.

Thank you to everyone who supports Gaslit Nation–we could not make the show without you! 

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April 14 4pm ET – Live-taping with Patrick Guarasci, chief political strategist for Judge Susan Crawford, discussing their campaign’s victory against Elon Musk in the pivotal Wisconsin Supreme Court race!

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Show Notes

Battleground Ukraine by Adrian Karatnycky https://yalebooks.yale.edu/book/9780300269468/battleground-ukraine/

Exclusive: Russia could concede $300 billion in frozen assets as part of Ukraine war settlement, sources say https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-could-concede-300-bln-frozen-assets-part-ukraine-war-settlement-sources-2025-02-21/

Who is Kirill Dmitriev, Putin's Trump-whisperer: Kirill Dmitriev, head of Russia's sovereign wealth fund, has become a key figure in the Kremlin's outreach to the Trump administration. https://kyivindependent.com/whos-kirill-dmitriev-putins-trump-whisperer/

Nerd Reich: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jiju_ky55EI

Transcript

Andrea Chalupa (00:10):

Welcome to Gaslit Nation. I'm your host, Andrea Chalupa, a journalist and filmmaker and the writer and producer of Mr. Jones, the journalistic thriller about the whole lot of more Stalin's genocide, famine in Ukraine. The Kremlin doesn't want you to see this film, so be sure to watch it. A big thank you to everyone who attended our Gaslit Nation salon, hosted by our security committee that shared valuable insights on protecting our digital world in these dystopian times. The recording will soon be available on Patreon for our community. Our next salon will be Monday, April 14 at 4:00 PM Eastern with Patrick Jacy, political strategist for Judge Susan Crawford to discuss their campaigns victory against Elon Musk in the pivotal Wisconsin Supreme Court race. The zoom link to join will be available on Patreon Monday morning. See you there. For more details, check out the show notes. Today's special guest has been on the front lines, fighting for democracy at home and abroad.

(01:14):

Adrian KiKaratnycky's critically acclaimed book Battleground Ukraine chronicles Ukraine struggle for independence from the fall of the Soviet Union to Russia's genocidal invasion. Today, Adrian is a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council, co-director of the Ukrainian Jewish Encounter and former president of Freedom House. He has also worked with civil rights legend, Baird Rustin, and for the AFLCIO, the largest federation of unions in America. Adrian's remarkable experiences include supporting Poland's solidarity movement, which help bring down the Iron Curtain. And Adrian also worked hard to help save radio free Europe Radio Liberty after the perceived end of the Cold War. He also worked for Civil rights legend, Bayard Rustin, and for the AFLCIO, America's Largest Federation of Unions. His experiences include helping solidarity, Poland's, union led movement for democracy that helped bring down the Iron Curtain, and Adrian worked hard to help save Radio Europe radio free liberty in the nineties after what many believed at the time was the end of the Cold War, and he has just returned from a trip to Europe where you gave a talk, I believe in Paris on your book Battleground Ukraine. What are Europeans saying about the Trump chaos in America? Are they mad at us?

Adrian Karatnycky (02:49):

Well, yes. There's an element of kind of shock at the level of irresponsibility in security relations and trade relations. This blows up or is an attempting to blow up eight decades of post-war relationships that have been bargained, negotiated, and based on mutual confidence because how do different countries coexist? Only if they have a bond based on trust. And if you have a longstanding relationship, let's say you're renting an apartment and your landlord in the middle of the day builds a wall through half of it and says, sorry, keep paying the same rent, and actually I want you to pay more rent, but I've decided to take back and this construction is done while you're sleeping. So basically there's an element of shock. But I think that the more important thing was that the discussion with the French, and admittedly a lot of Ukrainian diaspora people was more about can Europe do enough to help Ukraine?

(04:00):

Can Ukraine help itself enough to sustain itself from the Russian attack? It was more like the US is out of it in the case of this war. And there was also a lot of skepticism that peace and an harm is on the way and so on. So that was kind of the general tenor. It was like, how capable is Ukraine? How vulnerable is Ukraine? And I think the discussion revolved around the various mechanisms that Europe has, including the fact that Europe is sitting on a quarter trillion dollars of Russian assets in Belgium and European banks, which can easily be confiscated and put to use to make up at least for the next five or so years for the shortfall if the US abandons Ukraine. So that was the tenor of the discussion.

Andrea Chalupa (04:48):

Well, why isn't Europe doing that?

Adrian Karatnycky (04:51):

Well, I think Europe is first. They are doing a lot. The first thing that they're doing is the central bank is going to be releasing more liquidity and borrowing for the European states to allow them to build up their own defenses and also to continue to contribute in large amounts to sustain Ukraine's both Ukraine's economy and Ukraine's defense capabilities. The Europeans are beginning to also realize that they need to do a spurt of their own self-reliant military buildup, partly because the United States is no longer a reliable partner. I've had discussions with several European countries and people who represent the security establishment of those countries, and they were very shocked by the denial of short-term denial of intelligence support to Ukraine in the middle of a war. Trump had this hissy fit with Zelensky and the Oval Office, and suddenly not just the flow of arms already appropriated and voted in by Congress, but also intelligence sharing.

(06:02):

That meant that the Ukrainians were partly blind. I mean, they do have some of their own capacities, and I think some of the Europeans were helping them with their own satellite capacities. But the US has by far the most advanced technology. So the Europeans are now thinking like, what if we get an award in the United? What if Russia invades and the United States says we're out of it. We're not going to share intelligence about Russian troop movements in the Baltics or in the border of Poland, or God knows, God knows where. And so they're thinking about how to build their own satellite capacities to rise up to the level of what they get from the us. And there's this cooperation between the Anglo speaking world between Canada and New Zealand, Australia and Britain and the United States, the five eyes. And they now are worried that one of the eyes in this multi eyed creature is not going to be available to them.

(07:00):

So there are serious discussions about the reliability, not just that the US would answer Article five, but that it would just sort of say, we won't even help you on a technical way not to speak of the commitment of troops. So the uncertainty and the sheer chaos in international affairs that Trump has created is leading Europe to exercise the muscles that they have not exercised for decades. And I think they are going to get there. The question is how quickly are they going to get there? And here the answer may be in what the Danish Prime Minister recently said, which was that they made an experiment where they last year had half a billion in aid to Ukraine and they spent 500 million in aid to Ukraine. They spent a couple hundred million on the outside trying to procure weapons and provide assistance, and they gave a few hundred million to the Ukrainian defense industry.

(08:00):

And the Prime Minister said that it was so effective that the Ukrainians under war can produce quicker, better quality weapons with Danish money than the European military industrial complex. This year, they're going to give a one and a half billion in aid, partly to cover some of the shortfall from the United States, but they're going to spend a lot of it in Ukraine to produce weapons rather than to buy much more expensive, and they'd say delayed weapons because Europe's production facilities need rejiggering and restimulating in order to meet the pace of their growing needs. And Ukraine has been able under war and under constant attack to build a very impressive industry that produces drones, that produces various missiles and so on and so forth. They need more financial assistance because a lot of this is being done. I mean, the state has to pay for the materials.

(09:01):

The state has to pay for the workers. The state has to pay for the infrastructure. And so that money spent inside Ukraine, despite the war, is used more effectively than if it were used in Europe. So there are a lot of things that are being learned, a lot of things that are being revised, and the Europeans, the UK Ukrainians are saying they're going to be spent 52% of their needs this coming year will be produced domestically, 28% from Europe. So the shortfall will be about 20% if the US doesn't pony up. But Europe I think is going to be prepared to give Ukraine extra resources to buy US weapons. But with Trump and Trump's special relationship with Putin and the fact that he may turn out not blaming Putin for refusing to agree to an arm assist but might blame Ukraine, Ukraine may not even be able to. We don't know what the future holds. There's a big element of uncertainty in that.

Andrea Chalupa (09:55):

So Trump's special relationship with Putin, I want to go back to that because there was that shocking Oval Office meeting that many people described as an ambush with Trump and JD Vance looking like frat boys, drunken Alabama frat boys to war hero Zelensky saying, have you even said thank you in the last 30 seconds? And Zelensky is just holding his own because he's very street, as they say, from where he comes from. And that very much felt like a declaration by the Trump administration of the world, that America has switched sides in this war. And then you add to that the fact that Trump slapped 185 countries with tariffs except for Russia and Belarus, Belarus being used as a staging ground for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. So would the Europeans and our allies and five eyes, the English speaking countries, would it be more accurate to say that it's not just the US is chaotic and no longer reliable, but also we might be an enemy of this free world democratic alliance that has been put in place since World War ii? Wouldn't we be now a force that attends NATO meetings, uses our NATO position of power to spy, to further Russia's wider agenda? What would you say to that?

Adrian Karatnycky (11:21):

Well, I don't think we're there, but you're right that the US has switched sides. It hasn't switched to Russia. It's switched sides from being an ally and a supporter of Ukraine to being a neutral arbiter between Russia and Ukraine.

Andrea Chalupa (11:34):

You really think it's as simple as being neutral.

Adrian Karatnycky (11:37):

That's a huge shift because if you are neutral, you're not in the game and you're no longer on the side. So it's a moot point of whether you're helping Russia. The point is you're no longer on the Allied side. You're no longer with and Ukraine, you're on the outside. Now, some people around the Trump administration will say, we're trying to get the Russians to a bargain. We're trying to get the Russians to this ceasefire and we've got to give them some things and we have to behave as a neutral party, and we have to build up their confidence that we're not playing. We're an impartial kind of arbiter in all of this. Of course, how can you be impartial if one side is committing genocide if one side is committing a military aggression and so on? But even so, even if you accept the most positive spin on what Trump is doing, that he's trying to be neutral and not to rattle Putin and to sweet talk him into saying, look, the United States is not going to menace you.

(12:43):

We're not going to put Ukraine into NATO. We're going to make all these concessions on your behalf and to get to a peace agreement. Well, the question is, what if that fails and there is no indication that it is succeeding and there's no indication that the administration is doing what some people believed would be the Trump default position in the event of the failure of negotiations, which is for Trump to go as he's gone on tariffs to go ballistic. I don't mean literally with ballistic missiles, but to really ramp up the pressure on Russia instead, we're seeing no progress on negotiations. We're seeing the failure of an approach. If you ever believe that making concessions to Putin is the way to get him to settle, no, it's the way to get him to increase the number of demands he is making. And now he wants a different leadership in Ukraine.

(13:37):

He wants Ukraine to only have 50,000 troops after Russia has taken 20% of its territory and killed several hundred thousand of its people. He's saying that Ukraine should fundamentally disarm and allow Russia at any time it chooses to overrun the country. So there's been a complete failure of this nice guy approach, but there is no sign of a no more Mr Nice Guy approach, which is the real test of whether Trump is playing in Putin's favor or whether he is really, I mean, even if you believe that he's neutral, if the neutrality fails to move Russia forward, then you remain neutral, then you really are playing on Putin's side because you're basically withdrawing from a theater of war from a region which is vulnerable to Russian attack and saying, you're on your own. So what are you doing? I don't believe that US troops would act in coordination with Russia to carve up Europe or to do anything like that, but just the very fact of the US withdrawing and staying neutral and maybe not committing troops in the event some European countries are invaded by Russia, that in itself is already enabling Russia and helping Russia massively.

Andrea Chalupa (14:59):

Yeah. Neutrality is on the side of the aggressor a hundred percent. My concern is that we're still just a few short months into this administration. It feels like years by now, and it feels like neutrality might be the on-ramp to this new normal they want to get us accustomed to, which is that the US is staunchly aligned with Russia. Maybe they won't send American forces to help Russia sees Ukraine, but it could be worse as dropping Russian sanctions.

Adrian Karatnycky (15:30):

It's very clear that the Russians understand the mercantile interests of the Trump clan and the Trump family and the inner circle, the allure of a resource rich place without a lot of rules where you could quickly make deals. And I think they kind of understand that Putin is probably willing to play ball to enable that kind of enrichment because that's the way he acted with like Ukrainian oligarchs. He tried to buy them off by giving them access to cheap oil, which then they resold at much higher markups to the Ukrainian people and beyond to other countries. So the fact that Curial, Dimitri comes to Washington who is the head of the Russian sovereign wealth Fund, he's not a diplomat that's negotiating. He's a guy who's holding up these little prizes, these little gems to shine before, magically before the Trump team and say, let us have what we want in Ukraine. We will open our doors and you guys can come in and start making money, making some real money. Your sister revealed a lot of relationships and potential conflicts of interest, but these are still there and there's still a lot of uncertainty about what is under the surface.

Andrea Chalupa (16:54):

And just to clarify, because my sister and I still remain a fascination of the right wing conspiracy disinformation network, basically what my sister did, she was an independent DNC contractor who warned both Democrats, Republicans, the media that if longtime Kremlin operative Paul Manafort, who was based in Ukraine, working in his party, building up that party, if he was running Trump's campaign, that meant that there were very clear Kremlin connections. So she was believing her eyes and ears using a lot of publicly available information.

Adrian Karatnycky (17:27):

Actually, I know these oligarchs. The interesting thing about Manafort is that it raises the whole issue of Yanukovych, and it also raises the issue of what moment are we at in America? And I think it's worth discussing because we may be at the point of the Trump revolution depending on market stabilization, depending on whether he backs off on tariffs. But the Trump revolution is already in very big trouble, and it may be in dire trouble, and it may be at the point if he goes doubles down on the tariffs and there isn't some progress and the markets and we're in a recession, we're going to see a Thermador. We're already seeing it in the war that's emerged between the criticisms of the tariff deals that Elon Musk has launched in the last couple days. A lot of people sort of say the authoritarian impulse in Trump. I see Trump more like it's no wonder that Manafort and they kind of bonded. I think there's a lot similar to Trump and Yanukovych more so than Trump at Putin. I'm not saying that there isn't any danger to civil liberties because of Trump, but I think there's more of a kind of a fumbling. This is not a KGB man. This is more of a kind of conman and an occasionally successful guy. Sometimes he made a lot of money. I mean, he is made most of his money on his celebrity

Andrea Chalupa (18:55):

And from his father, from being a trust fund kid,

Adrian Karatnycky (18:57):

He inherited from his father. He built up a bit of money. He lost money, he made money, lost money. It was up and down. But the real money he began to make was after television and then through his political presence. I think that's why he went into politics, to raise the brand, to raise the profile, and to raise the potential of, I think he didn't think he was going to win that first election. He was surprised by many of the accounts, but I think he thought that if he got the nomination, it would allow them to. I used to joke that the special relationship, like we have the special relationship with the UK, well for Trump's special relationship is you have a Trump golf course, a Trump casino, and a Trump hotel in any country. That's the special relationship. And I think that's what he was after.

(19:38):

And now with truth social and the market value of these assets, clearly he's monetized his political power. And I think that was his initial interest and I think that's still one of his interests. And we remember that Yanukovych got into trouble because he wanted to build up himself up as a super billionaire. He was a wealthy, corrupt politician, but he saw these multi-billionaires whom he was serving, and he wanted to join the club and maybe become number one in that club. And I think Trump is not just fascinated with the allot musk. I think Trump wants to be or have his family be perpetuated as one of these world global brands, global powers. And I think that's why there is this danger of a guy like Curel Demetri coming and trying to seduce the administration. And that's the reason why even if there isn't a settlement, I think the default by Trump will be to kind of normalize relations to normalize trade relations and so on.

(20:47):

Do we believe there will be pushback within the Republican party? I think it'll depend on the polling. And I think that maybe one of the big signs of hope for Ukrainians and for all of us Americans, is that I think this tariff approach is a disaster. It's going to be an electoral disaster certainly in the next election cycle, even if you believe all the Trump thing that it'll bring industrial development and millions of well paying jobs to lower middle class Americans, nobody believes first the scale of that will be that large. And secondly that it'll happen earlier than 3, 4, 5 years down the line between corporations mustering the will to do this, figuring out this is the right time, seeing what happens in the trade negotiations. So I think Trump is in trouble, and that means that other policies will be more open to question. If we have Elon Musk now getting into a debate about trade policy, I think all the other, the tech bros will follow.

Andrea Chalupa (21:53):

Yeah, no, absolutely. I want to ask you about them because I know that you've met some of them and I would love to get your impression on what it is our AI super masters ultimately want in terms of their Superman villain narrative. But I want to ask you, just going back quickly, I agree that Trump may aspire to be a strong man like Putin had that level of wealth and power, but he comes across more like a keystone cops clumsy Victor Yanukovych who hastily passed his own anti-democracy dictatorship laws where he outlined investigative journalism, outlined freedom of speech, right to protest and so on. Trump and his whole MAGA crowd does make the Kremlin come across as disciplined in their own approach. But I wanted to ask you specifically, do you think with the chaos that Trump and Elon Musk are wreaking, not just here at home but around the world, also supporting these far right parties like Elon Musk really tried to tip his fist on the scale and Germany's election endorsing the A FD. So do you think the Democratic free world has what it takes, has the resolve to overcome this current far right threat? Can they ultimately unite, stay united, protect their election integrity? Can their voters show up election after election and make the right choices? Can they succumb the threats of social media, disinformation, oligarch, purchased disinformation on the TV, radio stations? Can the free world ultimately defeat Trump and Putin?

Adrian Karatnycky (23:30):

Well, I think that there are with the AFD and with all of these far right parties, there are also, I would say there is their electorate and the electorate is not. I think that when you had fascist movements, you had a huge unity between the electorate and the national leaders when you had this fever pitch in Europe where Mussolini and Franco and even Franco faced resistance, but Mussolini and Hitler, they had this incredibly fierce, loyal electorate that bought into the whole agenda. I think that a lot of the Trump voters and the Trump base there is the hardcore maga, and that may be 25 or 30%. So we would have a German style electoral map. If we had a multi-party system, there would be that kind of, but there is also a kind of conservative people who are unhappy with the declining middle class incomes and are looking for somebody who's offering them an easy answer.

(24:42):

We have some people who just have the belief that the wave of immigration, but don't buy into everything. And like their freedom of speech, like their civil liberties, don't want to surrender them to some kind of cause and also don't like the tariff policy and blowing up their 4 0 1 ks and their retirement planning, retirement savings. And I think that is replicated in other European countries. And actually the proof of it is that when Trump shut off military aid and technical intelligence sharing with Ukraine, Maureen Lapin said that it was immoral to leave the heroic Ukrainian fighters out there. She did it because why? Her electorate is not just rank and file whatever the great leader says, whatever the movement says, we're with you. No, she has to negotiate and bargain with public opinion much more so than Hitler or Mussolini did. Now, yes, if they get state power and they start using it in creating a police state, maybe that would change.

(25:54):

But my sense of Europe not having lived there was that at a certain point there was a tipping point where the vast majority of people were seduced by Mussolini and seduced by Hitler, and that gave them, in addition to the repressive instruments of the state, the ability to push this wider agenda. Here I think there's still going to be, and I think we're going to see it within Trump world, I saw Senator Ron Johnson who is as much a MAGA guy as anyone saying, look, I'm very worried about this tariff policy. I'm expecting the president to quickly negotiate deals that are in America's interest, but that this is disastrous for our farmers. This is disastrous to all the businessmen in Wisconsin and so on. So if you're hearing that kind of a thing, it's not quite. And if his ratings go down, then I think that discipline that we've seen that the Republicans aren't willing to punch back, I think we're going to see more of it. And I think that process also exists in Europe. So we have Maloney who is on the right on immigration issues, but is very pro Ukrainian. So it's a much more mixed bag than the traditional pathway. We're not reliving the 1930s, but there's still a lot of threats out there and there's still a lot of ugly politics out there, and still a lot of ugly politicians out there. Although I wouldn't put Maloney in the same category as Victor Orban or the AFD.

Andrea Chalupa (27:23):

Yeah, there's definitely a spectrum, but I would say she's definitely on the right of that spectrum.

Adrian Karatnycky (27:28):

Yes.

Andrea Chalupa (27:28):

So the whole world now needs the European Union, given that it's such a strong economy, it's such a strong defense industry. It's such a strong regulation body and in standing up to corporate giants in keeping higher standards for consumer goods and so on, and fighting for a more humane quality of life. So we need the EU to remain largely democratic and strong. Do you think this greater pressure on EU nations to fill the gap of the us, meaning more money for Ukraine, more defense and industry investments and so on, could that ultimately strain the eu, that it creates a backlash at the voting polls?

Adrian Karatnycky (28:11):

Well, that's where we can discuss the 300 billion in Russian hard currency reserves. That is European,

Andrea Chalupa (28:19):

Yeah, that the EU is holding onto that everyone's like, for the love of God, use that money. Even President Macron of France is like, we need to release that money for Ukraine.

Adrian Karatnycky (28:27):

Thus far, they've been very conservative about this. They are using the interest this is generated to secure what are loans that will eventually be forgiven or covered by this Russian money. So they're still doing this ruse of lending Ukraine money. But we know that if there's going to be a massive rebuilding of Ukraine after the war, Europe is going to be pouring lots of money into it. They're not going to be pulling money out. Which is also another thing we kind of can talk about is this special investment agreement between the United States and Ukraine, which Trump is trying to impose, which I think is a kind of a fig leaf and maga, because I think any adult person understands that a coercive agreement negotiated under duress will not stand up in the long run. So even if Ukraine signs away all these rights, it will very easily be able to abrogate this.

(29:29):

Or when a normal administration comes, they will do what the US did and Europe did when Poland and other countries saw the collapse of communism, they 50% of the debt that had been negotiated before to allow these countries to develop rather than to service an impossible economic burden. But anyway, back to the other thing. Europe has all these resources. People sort of say, well, might not be a bad precedent in international law that the sovereign earnings of another state can be taken by another. Won't that mean that the Chinese or others are not going to keep their money in our banks and won't that weaken our currencies? Well, the answer to that is depends on the conditions on which you apply to this. If the conditions are very strict and the conditions are that you invade another country and absorb its territory, if you annex that territory, you are subject to the confiscation of your wealth because that's only happened twice since the Second World War.

(30:36):

It happened once in Iraq and the United States applied and took when Iraq invaded Kuwait and the United States took the assets of Iraq in the United States and gave them to the Kuwaiti people for the damage that they had suffered from the invasion. And that's the only time since the end of the World War that another country has invaded and then annexed the territory, invaded, occupied, and annexed permanently the territory of another country. It also would be a deterrent on other countries trying to do this. This is such a rare thing. Countries break up, empires break up, but countries when they invade other countries do not annex them and do not grow their territory by military means. So we don't want this precedent to be broken. And I think that's why it's so dangerous that there are people in the Trump administration and within the Republican party that say that Ukraine should recognize Russia's occupation and annexation of their territory, including the crazy congresswoman from Indiana, Victoria Spars who suggested that Ukraine has to accept Russia's absorption of Ukrainian territory. That would be a precedent for other countries to invade, take over territory and get away with it. And that would be dangerous for Europe. Russia is a neighbor of Poland through Lin grad Russia. We pray and we're hopeful that Ukraine will hold the line, but Russia through Belarus, which is an adjunct of Russia border on NATO countries, and we have the Baltic countries that are very vulnerable, we don't want this precedent that you're giving a green light to Russia or any other country to occupy another country's territory and then to annex it.

Andrea Chalupa (32:35):

And now a special message from Gaslit nation's media committee on how members of the media can and must protect democracy.

GN Media Committee  (32:49):

Don't bury the lead. Call it an illegal tech backed coup to build trust. Stick to the facts when Trump's administration acts illegally, say it, especially in the headline, call it what it is. A tech backed coup that exposes Americans most sensitive data and replaces federal workers with unsecured AI to establish a new surveillance state. Follow the money, make private prison execs famous, investigate the financial interests behind Trump's immigration system. Expose executives, board members and their connections. Pursue them with cameras. They can't hide behind profits while lives are ruined. And civil liberties eroded. Fascism needs ignorance from dismantling the Department of Education to the war on woken universities. Trump continues delegitimizing education. This isn't about competition with other countries. It's about giving everyone the chance to grow as independent thinkers who reject fascism.

(33:50):

Follow the money, investigate Trump's major donors and their role in Musk's illegal purge of government services. Hold them accountable. Ask how they view their investments. Amid the chaos, track their contracts and regulatory benefits. Expose national security threats. Trump removed key military officials who prevented unlawful actions without them, who will stop him. Trump holds the nuclear football cozying up to adversaries, sending bombs to Israel and threatening wars against Canada and Greenland. Focus on how our adversaries are taking advantage. Clef to watch Focus on how companies exploit customers through greed, deflation, and Amazon's payola for search visibility. While the Biden administration has much to answer, for the media must spotlight the absence of enforcement of investigations brought by Lena Kahn and Tim Wu. Leaving corporate Kleptocrats unchecked

(34:51):

Media must thoroughly cover media. Journalists must cover attacks on media, including blocked access to info and censorship, for example, and Townes at the Washington Post report on media ecosystem changes, addressed bias and clarify distinctions among reporting, opinion and lies. Provide context on media ownership. Draw historical parallels. Trump and their allies are enacting policies similar to dictators like Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin. The media must challenge their unfounded assertions. They're attacking the press and critics reminiscent of Paul Pott's regime and Rwanda's genocide. Trump is trying to turn America into an autocracy. Act like it get the Columbia Journalism Review shared 10 essential tips for journalists reporting from autocracies. Share these with your teams, including your company's lawyers, killing big stories and obeying in advance is self-destructive.

(36:14):

Shine a light on private prisons. The private prison industry needs scrutiny, especially with Trump's lack of oversight. Innocent people are caught in reckless immigration raids as the system grows unchecked. Regular coverage of Guantanamo Bay is crucial due to its history of unlawful detention. And Trump's plan for a prison camp there for 30,000 people. Gilead is here. The media has abandoned calling out Trump's toxic masculinity regarding reproductive rights and civil rights. Raise awareness of the deadly consequences for women, including trans women and all non-white people. Access journalism is betrayal. Fascism's history includes journalists from major outlets becoming masters of euphemism to quote Gareth Jones, downplaying atrocities and broken laws to protect access. History will remember you for doing your job or being bought. Doing your job well can save lives and democracy.

(37:18):

Trump's administration is granting lucrative position to family members of allies and donor giving them undue influence over policy. The self stealing networks must be maed and explored unmask voter suppression. Election analysis must address gerrymandering. Unfair standard representation favoring red states, the electoral college designed to protect elites and the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. Don't treat our voter suppression crisis like horse race politics.

(37:46):

Focus on the 1%, expose extreme wealth inequality, how the 1% dodge taxes and exploit loopholes to preserve their wealth. Put a spotlight on how inequality fuels authoritarianism and is a direct threat to democracy.

(38:01):

Cover protests, highlight actions challenging the White House's destructive crimes. People need to see that citizens care about the laws being broken by Trump's administration and that they're not alone.

(38:13):

When something is unprecedented, that means they're testing boundaries to see what they can get away with. Say it -- the weird fights matter. Trump renaming the Gulf of Mexico to the Gulf of America may seem weird, but it's part of the fascist pageantry. Like Mussolini's famous eyeliner and Putin's shirtless photos. Look to experts in autocracy to identify which stories are being used as distractions and which stories are important to cover.

Andrea Chalupa (38:44):

Want to join the conversation? Shape the show by becoming a member of Gaslit Nation on Patreon. Join our community of listeners for exclusive q and a sessions. Bonus shows. Get all episodes ad free invites to live events and more. Most importantly, connect with other listeners in our group chat and committees, planting Seeds of change. Sign up at patreon.com/gaslit. Gaslit Nation hosts resilience political salons every Monday at 4:00 PM Eastern Can't make it live. Recordings are available to our community on Patreon. Salons are your space to vent, ask questions, and connect with other listeners who also really, really hate Nazis to help you Ukraine with urgently needed humanitarian aid. Join me in donating to ROM for ukraine@romforukraine.org to help refugees in conflict zones donate to Doctors Without borders@doctorswithoutborders.org. And if you want to help critically endangered orangutans already under pressure from the palm oil industry, donate to the Orangutan project@theorangutanproject.org.

(39:52):

Gaslit Nation is produced by Andrea Chalupa. Our editing wizard is Nicholas Torres, and our associate producer is Carlin Dagel. If you like what we do, leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us reach more listeners and check out our Patreon. It keeps us going. Original music and Gaslit Nation is produced by David Whitehead, Martin Berg, Nick Farr, Damien Ariaga, and Carlin Daigle. Our logo design was donated to us by Hamish Smite of the New York based Firm order. Thank you so much. Hamish Gast Nation would like to thank our supporters at the producer level on Patreon and hire Todd, Dan Milo and Cubby Abby Zavos, TB 9 2 6 6 6 because we are defeating the Antichrist. Lily Wi Choki. Ice Bear is defiant. Sherry Escobar, Sidney Davies. Work for Better Prep for Trouble. John Scholer. Ellen McGirt. Larry Gusan, Ann Bertino. David East Mark. Mark, Sean Berg, Kristen Custer, Kevin Gannon, Sandra Nans, Katie Ma, James D. Leonard. Leo Chalupa, Carol Goad, Marcus j Trent, Joe Darcy, DL Sinfield, Nicole Spear, Abby Road, janz Ra Razon, Sarah Gray, Diana Gallagher, Leah Campbell, Jared Lombardo, and Tanya Chalupa. Thank you all so much for your support of the show. We could not make Gaslit Nation without you.

Andrea Chalupa