An Unpunished Attempted Coup Paves the Way for a Successful One
On January 6, 2021, we watched on live television as Donald Trump and several Republican members of Congress incited a violent attempted overthrow of our democracy. This insurrection led to several deaths, including police officers who later died by suicide. When Joe Biden was sworn in as President in January 2021, Democrats controlled both chambers of Congress. Instead of using their time in power to pass a resolution or bill banning Trump and his supporters from holding office under the 14th Amendment's "insurrection clause" (Section 3), they held hearings that concluded with a report and a referral to the Department of Justice for possible criminal prosecution. In the 2022 midterms, Democrats lost the House due to America's worsening gerrymandering crisis.
Attorney General Merrick Garland waited two years to appoint Special Prosecutor Jack Smith. While some credit the Democrats’ January 6 committee for prompting Garland to take action, the reality is that both Democrats and Garland wasted valuable time. In the four years since January 6, 2021, no resolution or bill was passed in Congress to enforce the insurrection clause of the 14th Amendment. Instead, a group of voters and legal experts attempted to bar Trump from the ballot in Colorado, leading to legal cases such as Trump v. Anderson. In early 2024, the Supreme Court ruled that states could not bar federal candidates, and that applying the 14th Amendment was up to Congress. So, why didn’t Democrats act in 2021 and 2022 when they had two years to enforce the U.S. Constitution?
We need an honest accounting of how an insurrectionist will be president just four years after leading a violent attempt to overthrow our democracy. Democrats deferred to Merrick Garland, who then deferred to Jack Smith, who ultimately dismissed his Trump cases in November 2024, after Trump won one of the closest elections in U.S. history. This election took place amid rampant disinformation and the consolidation of far-right media, including Elon Musk’s takeover of Twitter, turning it into a platform for (pro-Trump and Russia) disinformation–the largest in the world. At the same time, Republicans and the Supreme Court over the years undermined the Voting Rights Act and expanded voter ID laws–a modern day poll tax, disenfranchising 21 million Americans. As Andrea and Terrell discuss in this week’s episode, the 2024 election was neither free nor fair. The institutions meant to protect us failed. As Gaslit Nation has long warned, an unpunished attempted coup leads to a successful one. The institutionalists and controlled opposition who enabled this crisis don't realize they are not safe either. Once a dictator is in power, no one can control them.
We also point out that George Orwell warned us about fascist bootlickers like Trump/Musk fanboy Lex Fridman, whose three-hour interview with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky can be summed up by Orwell’s quote: "Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind."
Gaslit Nation officially calls on Lex Fridman to stop quoting Orwell on his podcast—Orwell would have hated you.
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Show Notes
Republicans just took control of the House because of partisan and racial gerrymandering. Here's how https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/11/16/2136410/-Republicans-just-took-control-of-the-House-because-of-partisan-and-racial-gerrymandering-Here-s-how
In Trump’s second term, evidence suggests corruption will be worse, not better Donald Trump’s first term was astonishingly corrupt. There’s already reason to believe his second will be worse. https://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/maddowblog/trumps-second-term-evidence-suggests-corruption-will-worse-not-better-rcna179589
U.S. to probe Tesla's 'Full Self-Driving' system after pedestrian killed
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/19/g-s1-29030/us-probe-tesla-full-self-driving-system
The Republican Structural Advantage Republicans start every election cycle with structural advantages regardless of the issues and all the other factors that usually determine who wins elections. https://prospect.org/power/republican-structural-advantage/
How conservative media helped the far-right take over the Republican Party https://www.vox.com/2015/7/30/9074761/conservative-media-republican-party
How Media Consolidation Paved the Way for Right-Wing Insurrection A battle playing out at the Supreme Court could make media monopolies way worse. https://inthesetimes.com/article/supreme-court-media-consolidation-fcc-echo-chamber
Media Consolidation Means Less Local News, More Right Wing Slant https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/insights/media-consolidation-means-less-local-news-more-right-wing-slant
The Right-Wing Media Takeover Is Destroying America The purchase of The Baltimore Sun is further proof that conservative billionaires understand the power of media control. Why don’t their liberal counterparts get it? https://newrepublic.com/post/178256/baltimore-sun-liberal-billionaires-media-failure
The growth of Sinclaire’s conservative media empire https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/the-growth-of-sinclairs-conservative-media-empire
How Gerrymandering Tilts the 2024 Race for the House Facebook LinkedIn Skewed maps give Republicans big advantages in 11 states, mostly in the South and Midwest.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/how-gerrymandering-tilts-2024-race-house
Elon Musk Being Investigated for Violating Terms of "Top Secret" Clearance He has become a major liability for the government. https://futurism.com/elon-musk-investigated-violating-terms-top-secret-clearance
Elon Musk didn’t show up for testimony in a probe over his $44 billion Twitter takeover. Now the SEC wants sanctions https://www.cnn.com/2024/09/20/tech/sec-sanctions-elon-musk-testimony-twitter-probe/index.html
The Women’s March Rebranded and Reorganized. Now They’re Ready for 2025 https://time.com/7203169/womens-march-donald-trump-protest-change/
ABC Settles With Trump in a Case It Could Have Won https://fair.org/home/abc-settles-with-trump-in-a-case-it-could-have-won/
Why Gerrymandering Has Gotten Worse https://www.cbsnews.com/news/why-gerrymandering-has-gotten-worse/
The North Carolina GOP’s Latest Ploy to Steal a State Supreme Court Seat https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2024/12/north-carolina-gop-state-supreme-court.html
North Carolina’s Unfair Voting Maps Gave GOP Congress Majority https://www.charlotteobserver.com/opinion/article296319684.html
Judge agrees to dismiss Donald Trump's 2020 election interference case President-elect Trump faced charges over his handling of classified documents and his efforts to overturn his 2020 election loss, which culminated in the U.S. Capitol attack. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/jack-smith-files-drop-jan-6-charges-donald-trump-rcna181667
The lost year: How Merrick Garland’s Justice Department ran out of time prosecuting Trump for January 6 https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/06/politics/doj-trump-jan-6-riot/index.html
Transcript
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Pete Aguilar (00:16):
Let's take a look at the effect of Donald Trump's words and actions. I want to warn our audience that the video contains explicit content.
Donald Trump (00:27):
Mike Pence is going to have to come through for us, and if he doesn't, that will be a sad day for our country and Mike Pence. I hope you're going to stand up for the good of our constitution and for the good of our country. And if you're not, I'm going to be very disappointed in you. I will tell you right now.
Unknown (00:49):
I'm telling you what I'm hearing that Pence, I'm hearing that Pence just caved. No. Is that true? I didn't hear. I'm hearing reports that Pence caved. I'm telling you, if Pence caved, we're going to drag through the streets. You politicians are going to get drug through the streets. Yes.
(01:06):
I guess the hope is that there's such a show of force here that Pence will decide to do the right thing according to Trump.
Angry crowd (01:17):
Bring out Pence, bring out Pence, bring out Pence...
Andrea Chalupa (01:36):
Happy Insurrection Day to those who celebrate. We just had January 6th, 2025 in America where four years after insurrectionist, Donald Trump tried to violently overthrow American democracy, A storm, a storm of violent rioters on the US Capitol chanting hang Mike Pence, looking for members of Congress four years after this shocking event that something like this has never happened in United States history. Four years later, January 6th, 2025, insurrectionist Donald Trump is officially voted in through electoral college as US president and not a single voice of protest against this by anyone in the US Congress, namely the Democrat. I just want to remind everyone, welcome to Gaslit Nation. This is why we call the show Gaslit Nation. I'm joined with my dear friend Terrell Starr right now in key of Ukraine. I want to ask you, Terrell, as America is in the clutches of Hypernormalization where we're forced to accept the unacceptable Hakeem Jeffries. The other day in Congress, Jeffries made some comment saying, we don't have election deniers on the Democratic Party side.
Hakeem Jeffries (03:01):
Two months ago, the American people elected Donald Trump as the 47th president of the United States of America. Thank you for that very generous applause. It's okay. There are no election deniers on our side of the aisle. You see, one should love America. One should love America win. You win and win, you lose. That's the patriotic thing to do and that's the America that house Democrats will fight hard to preserve because we love this country
Andrea Chalupa (03:56):
And it's like, okay, Hakeem Jeffries, that's fair. Porters on the Democratic party side are not going to get their weapons and start charging. That's not how we do things. We make phone calls, we march, we run for office. We're not terrorists. In the lead up to Trump coming to power, the FBI warned warned for well over a decade that white supremacist terrorism was on the rise and that's the base that Trump consolidated to come to power. But I want to just point out, Hakeem Jeffries could have been Speaker of the House. This was not a free and fair election by any standards. And if this election had taken place in a foreign country, the US would've passed sanctions we have had in recent years, in acceleration of right wing consolidation of media with Sinclair buying up local news and turning local news in a Fox News in many places across the country, conservative oligarchs buying up newspapers, including most recently in Baltimore social media is now in the hands of Trump allies with Mark Zuckerberg's meta ending, its fact-checking program and Elon Musk turning Twitter into the largest Russian disinformation platform in the world.
(05:01):
And mainstream cable news like CNN proudly claims, CNN safe Republicans, we already have Fox News. We don't need CNN to go down that path. That's just the media landscape and it's increasingly getting worse. With Jeff Bezos, the owner of the Washington Post, losing a famous cartoonist who left the paper because they refused to run her cartoon showing American corporations bowing down to King Trump with offerings of money including Mickey Mouse, A BC, which is owned by Disney, rushed to give Trump something like $15 million to settle a so-called defamation case with George Stephanopoulos, which First Amendment experts said they could have won, but instead they put money in his coffers. Let's look at gerrymandering. According to the Brennan Center, gerrymandering gives Republicans a massive advantage in 11 states, mostly in the South and Midwest. And that includes North Carolina where the Democratic Party refused to play the long game like Republicans have been playing for all these decades by investing heavily in local races in that state, and Republicans therefore ensure gerrymandering a North Carolina and they're now in the process of stealing a North Carolina Supreme Court race from a Democrat who won it fair and square.
(06:16):
But the power has been so consolidated in the hands of the gerrymandering Republicans in North Carolina, and that is what cut off Hakeem Jeffrey's very, very close path to almost winning the house. We did what we needed to do in New York State and California to try to win the house, but fell short because of North Carolina. So if Democrats had invested smartly, played smartly in North Carolina all these years, committed to some sort of long game, Hakeem Jeffries would be speaker of the house today, but they didn't. They've been asleep at the wheel and the gerrymandering crisis in America has grown worse. And lemme remind you that gerrymandering is a matter of life or death. MAGA Mike Johnson who intentionally delayed a vote on Ukraine aid for six critical months, giving Russia a much needed advantage on the battlefield will be speaker of the House again when it could have been Hakeem Jeffries if the Democrats had been fighting to put out the fire.
(07:10):
Then we have voter ID laws that are spreading. Maine is the latest state being targeted by a Republican referendum to try to force a vote there to bring voter ID laws. A majority of us states require an ID in order to vote and you might think, well, what's the big deal? But 21 million Americans do not have an ID for a variety of reasons, including transportation problems, limited time off from work, they have difficulty acquiring the necessary documents. Voter ID laws essentially are a poll tax and they're spreading. If you don't own a home or permanent address in America, you can vote in every state. The housed can vote. It should be the same for an id. You should not need an ID to vote these voter ID laws unfairly disadvantaged young voters and non-white voters. Just think about it, people that are financially insecure, imagine them trying to take time off of work to get the necessary documentation, taking the time off of work to file the paperwork needed to get an ID in the first place.
(08:11):
That's the difficulty. And then of course you have the US Senate, which gives a significant advantage to Republicans. When every single state gets two senators, then largely rural, conservative states get more power than largely populated liberal states like California and New York. The Senate was created by the founding fathers who were slave owners to try to protect less populated states, smaller states from the bigger ones, but instead it is empowered a tyranny of the minority. And that's where we are now. And then on top of all this, you have the nonpartisan nonprofit free speech for people that has been warning for years that Trump's big lie, which led to the violent attempted overthrow of our democracy on January 6th, 2021 was ongoing and included Trump supporters stealing sensitive voting machine data in Georgia software still widely used in several states today. They warned the FBI, the DOJ and Congress and no one addressed it. Black Voters Matter signed off on a statement demanding that this be addressed and instead there was silence. None of this is normal. In Romania, they overturned the first round of a presidential election for less. So given that long list of imbalance that greatly favors Republicans cinching control of the White House in Congress, why are we calling this a free and fair election? I don't believe it was at all. And that does not make me an election denier. What are your thoughts, Terrell?
Terrell Starr (09:36):
I agree with everything you're saying, but I think it's a lot more complicated as well. Were the elections free and fair? No. Were they technically legal? Yes, they were. And I think that's the main distinction that we need to make just because the elections were legal, it doesn't make them fair. Think about Jim Crow. Jim Crow was legal, wasn't fair, slavery was legal, wasn't fair and free. In fact, some of the electoral practices that we are talking about are some of the same things that are directed towards Eastern European countries, including Hungary. Victor Rabban, one of the main ways that he's able to maintain power is they have their own gerrymandered electoral politics that keeps him there, right? There's so many people who threaten this power and it overrides the will of the people. So basically in America what we have is the will of the people competing against a select group of elites who are manipulating the mechanisms of the state against them.
(10:32):
That's what you have. So absolutely right. There is nothing fair and free about these elections. If they were, Trump would not be president. I still think about Georgia for example, which is purple. I'll never forget that. When Stacey Abrams, who was a incredible black female candidate that ran for governor twice in a row the first time in 2018, she ran against a man who held the position of the top electoral official in the state, and that is the Secretary of State. I also remember that same year where a guy named Andrew Gillum was a half a point away from winning the governorship. However, in that state you had hundreds of thousands of people who were formerly convicted of felonies who didn't have their right to vote the last time I checked. In America, if you pay your debt to society, you're paid. You should not hold that debt forever.
(11:22):
And so there's so many people who are disempowered from voting who could have shifted pendulum for Andrew Gillum. So we just have example after example of example in contemporary America where everything is completely unjust. It's a new Jim Crow. It is something that I tell Ukrainians all the time. They were always asking Terrell, do you think Trump win? I said, I don't know. And much of that has to do with the inequity in our systems and that still befuddles them and they don't understand it because they look to our country so much for freedom and equity because it's something that they aspire to because it's better than what they have. But the real question is, is our electoral system the best that we can do? Absolutely not for all of its faults and its failures, it's definitely a lot better as far as allowing people to exercise their civil liberties and to fight against it and to make it better and improve it. And by the way, the people who improve it are the minorities of this country, people of color, women. That's where we are right now, and it's a conundrum that we continue to live with in America and it's something that really makes a lot of Ukrainians I talk to all the time here, scratch their head.
Andrea Chalupa (12:35):
Lives are at stake now with Trump in power. And I know Don Jr., the idiot's son, is going to Greenland and Trump is on social media today saying, we're going to buy Greenland. And I know people are like of their trolling, they're trying to distract from the horror show they're about to unleash on the American public with Kash Patel getting nominated to run the FBI, which is basically going to be the mean girls burn book for Trump and his click where they're going to go using it, force of the United States government, the most powerful government in the world to be petty as hell. But I want to point out the whole Greenland, it's more about countries changing borders and normalizing that and the superpowers acquiring the smaller countries. That's really what is at play here. That's what they're trying to normalize. That's why Trump glorifies strong men.
(13:20):
He wants that might and his buddy Putin is doing just that in Ukraine backed by his other buddy, the dictator of North Korea who's supplying Putin with bodies and missiles for his war. So yeah, the Greenland joke is not just a joke. It's extremely disturbing. And so the other thing, big story is yes, it is a new Jim Crow and it'd be great if the Democrats had a strategy to fight it and speak with moral clarity. The Democrats didn't invest the largest number of dollars into these local state races where MAGA is waging war, where MAGA is waging the war of Trump's big lie where they're chipping away at democracies on the all important state level. The Democrats were not the largest donors to try to protect the all important state governments across the union, which it wasn't the Democratic party that did that. It was the state's project, the group that we promote here on the show for years, it was the fucking grassroots. We're the Democrats on this. Also, you have Elon Musk who's bringing this Jim Crow global virus into Europe where he's now been called out by McClellan of France, the British Prime Minister in Germany. Leaders are calling out Elon Musk. Elon Musk is trying to do to major EU superpowers what he did to the United States of America.
Terrell Starr (14:36):
Nothing about this surprising me because powerful white men have always tried to unify other white men around the world and white supremacists around the world. I remember after the father of Soviet Union, one of the first white supremacists who traveled to Russia was David Duke. And so you have this country, inly Russia that everyone was kowtowing to that the West was begging to accept democracy and western thinking, which they never did, and I don't think they're capable of because they aren't that right amongst all these people who are ingratiating themselves with this new Russia was that grand wizard of the KKK. White nationalism has always had this global context, and that's one of the things that they're very good at. The thing about white people, particularly insecure white people in cell culture, et cetera, they're very good with finding global communities. And it's something that the good guys are not as good at because the good guys are very clique-ish in their thinking. They're very tribal.
Andrea Chalupa (15:34):
It's tribal.
Terrell Starr (15:34):
Tribal and eat their own, right. And so, white supremacists, white extremists can absolutely hate each other, but one thing that they're very good at is uniting around hating everyone else even more. And so the fact that Elon Musk, who apartheid Clyde, the fact that he is using his money, his technological influence, I would be shocked if he did not. And a lot of the people really don't recall the fact that his businesses have been regularly sued for racial discrimination, particularly against black people and Latino people. If you just hit the court dockets, you'll find a plethora of lawsuits against Elon Musk businesses, primarily Tesla for all kinds of acts, which he says little about or cares about correcting. There are some people who have been awarded settlements because of it. So this idea that he would take this very domestic racism that culminates in his own businesses that are born from his own white supremacist upbringing should be no surprise to anyone.
Andrea Chalupa (16:44):
The bad guys, the Intels, the Nazis, they unite because it's not a meritocracy. You don't need to have any talent to join their gene pool. They have some of the dumbest motherfuckers on their side. Elon Musk as a trust fund kid born into great wealth who bought his way to the very top and the idiots in the US government believed in him because he was white, powerful, rich. And so they trusted him as some sort of expert and they let him have security clearance. And now that's all been backfiring. He's under investigation as we'll go into in a second by several US government agencies including the Pentagon. And the only reason why he had instant credibility with these people was his whiteness and his silver spoon. And so he's instantly accepted instant credibility. You don't need talent. These guys, their rallies are packed with a bunch of mouth breathers who can't even tell you how government functions, but they're about to see their unions busted by what's coming.
(17:44):
They're about to see their social security gone, their healthcare, so they might go through their own existential crisis. See, I'm not holding out for it, but meanwhile, on the left, we have such high standards for each other that are almost shallow. They're so high. It's like, who's fashionable? Who can get you a job in the media, who can get you your own show on some big podcast network? There's a lot of social climbing on our side and it's done through these very clickish way, so there's not a lot of unity. There's certain clicks in the media where it's super fashionable to go after the oligarchy as it should be. But then the second you start talking about Ukraine, no one wants to hear it. It's like, yo Ukraine's getting all of our money. That's not how this works guys. The oligarchy war is global. The oligarchs here at home that are screwing us over are aligned with the oligarchs that are invading Ukraine and funding that war. There's just Idiocracy also on the left where the foreign policy is missing in many of these circles.
Terrell Starr (18:41):
Foreign policy is missing because their biggest lifetime enemy is the big bad west. And listen, I'm a black man. I grew up in Detroit, one of the most racially wrought cities in US histories. I'm not a cheerleader for American white supremacy, but the reality of it is that the American left is a euphemism for white people who are not quite as racist as the big racist. And so they may not be as colonial or imperial in their thinking, but they're equally as arrogant as door keepers, as pretentious, as arrogant, as exclusive, as the white racist that they claim to espouse. They just have less of it because it's not in vogue for them to be. So I just want to get that straight. I'm not a fan of white Western progressive thinking because they think that they're that much better. They're just, at least for minorities, they're just simply more tolerable because even with us, we are not able to get as much as equity in these groups either. So they aren't particularly different from the people that they criticize.
Andrea Chalupa (19:51):
Other big news this week, Lex Friedman confirmed to the world that he is a fascist boot licker. Who is Lex Friedman? Lex Friedman is a computer programmer and podcaster who became influential thanks to Elon Musk praising him after Friedman produced a non-peer-reviewed study claiming drivers remain focused while using Tesla's self-driving car system. The US government is investigating Tesla's full self-driving car systems after several reports of dangerous situations, one of them where a pedestrian was killed. Here's a clip which elects Friedman himself featured to open his three hour interview with Ukrainian president Zelensky in Kiev.
Lex Friedman (20:42):
I hope the Kiev airport will open soon, then it will be easier to fly in.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (20:47):
Yes, I think that the war will end and President Trump may be the first leader to travel here by airplane. I think it would be symbolic by airplane.
Lex Friedman (20:58):
Again, January 25th around that date, right? Flying in, meeting the Air Force one.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (21:04):
That would be cool.
Lex Friedman (21:04):
There is a perception of corruption. People like Donald Trump and Elon Musk really care about fighting corruption. What can you say to them to gain their trust that the money is going towards this fight for freedom towards the war effort?
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (21:23):
In most cases, we did not receive money. We received weapons, and where we saw risks that something could be a weapon, we would slap everyone on the wrist. And believe me, this is not only about Ukraine on the supply chain everywhere. There are some or other people and companies who want to make money because everyone makes money on the war. We did not profit from the war. If we found someone, believe me, we slapped everyone on the east and we did that, we did that, and we will continue to do so because to this day when someone says that Ukraine was selling weapons, and by the way, Russia was the one pushing this narrative, we always responded, our soldiers would kill such people with their own hands without any trial. Do you honestly think anyone could steal weapons by the truckload when we ourselves don't have enough on the front lines, and yet we have to provide proof to defend ourselves? Because when there's an abundance of such misinformation, distrust starts to grow. And you're right, people listen to various media outlets see this and lose faith in you. In the end, you lose trust and with it, you lose support. Therefore, believe me, we are fighting more against disinformation than against particular cases. Although I still emphasize once again at the everyday levels such things are still important. We catch these people and we fight them.
Andrea Chalupa (23:05):
First of all, Trump and Elon Musk have been investigated and exposed from massive corruption according to all the reporting that's out there. There's a great article that I'll link to in the show notes which summarizes some of this, Paul. Trump's first term was astonishingly corrupt. There's already reason to believe his second will be worse. I'll link to that article in the show notes. Musk, as I mentioned just now, his self-driving car systems are being investigated after pedestrian was killed. And according to a recent report in the New York Times, Musk is being investigated by the Defense Department, the Air Force and the Pentagon for violating his top secret security clearance. Musk's acquisition of Twitter, which he purchased with the help of financing connected to the children of sanctioned Russian oligarchs is being investigated by the SEC. His super PAC is also under investigation in Michigan. So there's a lot of investigations into Musk, Musk, and I'm sure I'm leaving some out.
(24:01):
And Trump himself is a convicted felon, a convicted felon, and that is who Lex Friedman is praising in the opening of his three hour interview with Zelensky, that's who Lex Friedman is, claiming cares about corruption. And in this same interview, Lex Friedman references George Orwell's Animal Farm. He snaps back at his critics comparing his critics to the bleeding sheep in Orwell's Animal Farm. I want to make abundantly clear. I've spent decades researching George Orwell. I've spent hours in the Orwell archives in London. I've written a book, Orwell and the Refugees, the untold Story of Animal Farm. I researched and a wrote a film, Mr. Jones, which features George Orwell as a character. I had deep dive, wonderful discussions with the brilliant English actor Joseph Moley, who played George Orwell about insights into Orwell's personality. I researched in a wrote a graphic novel about Orwell's First Wife and Muse, Eileen Nessie, which is going to come out in a year or so.
(25:06):
That's also set up as a TV series with a major production company. And on and on the list goes. I've devoted myself to truly understanding the mind of George Orwell. And I can tell you with the utmost confidence that George Orwell hated people like Lex Friedman. This is an Orwell quote from his essay politics and the English language, which sums up Lex Friedman's interview with Zelensky, where Friedman treats mass murdering mafia state dictator Putin like a good faith actor who loves the Russian people that he's feeding into his unwinnable meat grinder in Ukraine. Here's the Orwell quote. Political language is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind, that's Orwell on Lex Friedman.
Terrell Starr (25:57):
Zelensky did a masterful job of navigating that interview. I know a lot of people were saying that Zelensky should not dignify Lex's podcast by appearing because they foresaw that Lex was going to have this very crucified point of view that he was going to try to club Zelinsky over the head with and his listening audience with. But Zelinsky can't turn down such interviews because in addition to being the president of Ukraine, he has to be a global diplomat. He has to be a global communicator. And in fact, if there was anyone who should be on a podcast like Lex Friedman, it should be Zelensky because people don't really appreciate the fact that this guy is an entertainer and his job is to perform for the camera. And he has actually inculcated him that skill into his presidency when he communicates on the international stage. What Zelensky did was in a very diplomatic way, in a joking way, in a chatting way, he treated Lex like a schoolboy who didn't know what he was talking about.
(27:12):
He was like an older parent or a bigger brother who was talking to a naive child to show him the better path in life. He was like a very caring parent. That's how I took the interview. There was one part of the interview where Lex was talking about this whole thing about you should speak Russian, we should speak Russian, dah, dah, dah, dah. And then Lex said that your English is much better than mine. And then Zelinsky said, yeah, you're a Ukrainian. That's terrible. And then he was saying in part of his response to one of Lexi's questions, he said, you have Ukrainian roots. Now, that may seem like a very light inconsequential statement, but it was a very consequential statement for this one reason. It's a very ethnic way, like ethnic people, black people talk to other black people, and we essentially say you forgot where you've come from.
(28:05):
That's what Zelensky was saying to him. And as a black American who's had these very confrontational relationships within my own community about what our devotion should be to each other and to our people, Zelensky was saying, Hey, Mr. Ukrainian, you may be of this place, but you're not from this place. Right? That's what he was saying to him this whole time. But he didn't say that because he was diplomat. Goodbye. But it was 100% clear. That's what he meant. And if you're somebody who takes pride in your identity, you would take exception with what Lex said. Also, he has this very underhanded way in which he tries to position like his Ukrainian roots as to make himself an authority on the conversation. But when you listen to him, he sounds like a Russian shell completely. That is what Zelensky did. But here's the main thing that I found really offensive.
(28:57):
Who the fuck are you to tell someone how the fuck they need to speak to you? I'm actually, I do interviews here all the time, and sometimes I use a translator. There's two Afro Ukrainian women that I'm interviewing next week, and they made it very clear to me when I get on the camera, I want to speak in Ukrainian. Yes, I was born in the East, but I refuse to speak these people's language. And they literally say those people's language. I'm not speaking their language. And one of these people, one of the people I'm interviewing, she's from Lu Hans, where in 2014, she was forced to be an IDP, an internally displaced person because the Russians literally fired a missile or a rock into her house. It destroyed it. All of her life's memories and everything, her childhood home completely destroyed. They also tortured her two brothers who eventually went into the Ukrainian armed forces, killed one of her brothers, and the other brother was injured psychologically so bad that he has been in France for years. Under psychological treatment. You actually want Zelensky to speak this language, and you speak about Russia in this very dotting paternalistic framework. As far as I'm concerned, Lex might as well be Russian because the way that he was speaking, he spoke like one, and he had the nerve to insist that a sitting president speak in the language that he dictates. Who the fuck does this shit?
(30:28):
I don't think people realize how grossly disrespectful that was. Now, here's the thing. You all are going to always hear me talk about the black experience and how I appreciate this, and I do a lot of correlations. And as a black person, I saw the gross disrespect. It was horrible the way that Lex treated him. He was very insulting. I have interviewed Kamala Harris. I've interviewed all kinds of people at the highest of levels running for president senators, governors. I would never go in and tell them, this is how I want you to talk to me. I don't know any political journalist who would ever do that. Now because Lex is not a journalist, I don't expect him to have the same decorum or training that I would have, but god damn, this is about fucking respect. Okay? Here's another thing. You come in my motherfucking house and telling me, forgive me for the profanity, but if Zelinsky had custom out, he would've been fully justified.
(31:29):
Now, I don't expect the dignitary to do this, but he would've been fully justified in doing so. I just can't see how anyone could respond to the first five minutes of that interview any differently than I have. It was one of the most disrespectful interviews that I've seen in all my life. I'm not saying that to be hyperbolic. I'm saying it because I genuinely meant it. I was highly offended by listening to that interview. I truly was. I appreciate Zelinsky for masterfully, as you say it in our text messages, dog walking him through that whole three hours because that didn't make Lex look good. It made him look like a fucking idiot. That's what it made him look like, and it made him look like he was paid by the criminal. Do we know that as a 100% fact? No, but do I believe it?
(32:13):
I believe that Lex has a very crucified brain, and he's appealing to the far right. He's appealing to this bro-a-sphere in the podcasting world. And another thing that he was saying that I picked up on was his leading questions were based off misinformation and disinformation. So when he started saying that, what are you doing? How can you assure that the money that America is sending you is going to be used for good? And basically it's not going to go into corrupt structures or hands. And zelensky corrected him by saying that, first of all, America's not giving us money. They're giving us arms. Then Zelensky answered appropriately. But that was an irresponsible question because for one, we're not sending them barrels of cash. And it's a very disinformation formulated question that leads to more disinformation and misinformation because Americans, we generally are not following how budgets work.
(33:08):
And so a lot of people don't have the discernment to say that the monetary amount that's being announced is for budgetary purposes. But in fact, what the Ukrainians are receiving are arms that are equivalent to that value that's being proved. Now, Lex, if he's being intellectually honest, would've made that clear in his questioning. But he didn't do that because he wanted to be intellectually dishonest. But also too, I really don't think that he is a very well learned person when it comes to politics and history and temporary issues, including Ukraine. Another thing too, when he talks about the language being banned, he was saying, well, he specifically said that he said language being banned. Look, I was speaking to a colleague of mine who I'm working on a project here in Ukraine. I don't speak Ukrainian well enough to formulate a productive conversation. This lady doesn't speak English.
(34:01):
When we weren't using Google to translate, we spoke in Russian. I speak Russian all the time here. There's a post office right down the street that I go to regularly. We speak in Russian because they don't speak English. No one gives a fuck. That's the first thing. Number two, it's not banned here, never was. You know who is shooting down language? Russia up. You can't speak Ukrainian and occupied territories. The Crimean tartars, their language, their culture is being suppressed. None of that is being suppressed in Ukraine. So the dude came out making a false statement in a question. Zelinsky fires back on this stuff, but it's one of the reasons why people really did not want Zelinsky to sit down for this interview. They knew he's Russian disinformation bot. That's what he is. Lex Freeman is a bot on Ukraine. That's all he is. He's a glorified bot.
(34:53):
Zelensky did a masterful job of pushing back against all of the questions that he was asking. But again, God damn the fucking disrespect. And if you all listening to me and you hear the anger in my voice, I live here. None of the things that Lex is talking about is consistent with what I've reported and what I've observed here for being in this country for basically 16 years, but more critically during this war. It's really an insult. And people should be condemning him, not just for his irresponsibility and how he asked his questions, but just the pure utter disrespect. And the fact that he wasn't cussed out. He should be thankful. Zelensky didn't cuss him out. Now, Ukrainians were cussing him out on social media. I mean, they were doing that for Zelensky. Can't over the other, disrespect the nerve of him. The nerve.
Andrea Chalupa (35:39):
One of the highlights of the interview is where Lex Friedman invites Zelensky to Texas to go get some barbecue and hang out with Joe Rogan and Zelensky asked, without missing a beat, who's going to pay for it? Putin?
Lex Friedman (35:54):
Well, when you come and visit me in Texas as a guest for the third time
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (35:59):
With pleasure.
Lex Friedman (36:00):
Let's do this. How about you, my friend Joe Rogan and I will go get some Texas barbecue together.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (36:08):
Who will pay?
Lex Friedman (36:10):
That's a good question.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (36:12):
Putin. Putin. For everything. He has to pay.
Andrea Chalupa (36:17):
[Laugh] You know what I mean? It was a pure dog walking by Zelensky. And I have to say Lex Friedman, if you want to know what Walter Durante was like, it was this. It was this elegant lying. It was this elegant euphemism. It was elegant, bad faith arguments. And Lex Friedman is obsessed with power. That's what it is. He's gaga over power. He couldn't even help himself around Zelensky, a powerful man. And that's why Lex Friedman is praising Elon Musk, praising Trump, and just gaga over being in the presence of Zelensky in the halls of power, though that's really the side that he's on, and that's a side that ante was on the side of power is Lex Friedman going to go to Moscow in his interview with Putin and sit down across from Putin, a mass murderer, and look Putin in the eyes and say, are you forcing those 700,000 Ukrainian children that you kidnapped to speak Russian?
(37:10):
Are they allowed to speak Ukrainian? Are you going to return those children that you've kidnapped, which is an act of genocide? Is Lex Friedman going to have the balls to ask Putin that directly to Putin's face? No, he's not. And I can put money on that. That's the problem that we're having here. He treats Putin throughout this interview. He full on says, without laughing, Putin loves the Russian people. Zelensky laughed. And Zelensky had so many great lines throughout this interview, which is why I recommend people to listen to it. It's a masterclass by Zelensky where he says, Putin is death. Putin is death personified. There's no negotiating for your life with death. And I want to remind everyone, one thing about this interview that's stellar is that Zelensky goes down the list of all the ways the Ukrainians have tried over the years to have ceasefire after ceasefire after ceasefire, the two minsk agreements, the several ceasefires that they brokered with Russia.
(38:09):
And every time Russia ignores all of it, the Ceasefires land for peace, none of that will work with Russia because they've tried it again and again and again and again and again. And this interview reminds you of that because Zelensky spells it all out for the idiots that are Lex Friedman's hardcore listeners. And one other thing I want to remind everyone of, there was a first chechen war where the Russians in to try to clobber Chechnya. And that led to a ceasefire. What happened after that ceasefire with Chechnya, the Russians regroup and leveled Chechnya to the ground, and now they control chenia. So the ceasefires mean nothing to Russia. The only thing that matters to Russia is genocidal imperialism. They are modern day pirates. They're modern day Hitlers. They just want to grab, smash and steal because they don't produce anything of meaningful value for the world. They have to bandit capitalism that they're very proud of there. And it's not just the crown dictatorship. That culture is seeped throughout that entire society. That's why you're not seeing any mass protests against the war by all of these Russians that have fled abroad because they prefer quality of life in the west versus the rotting corpse of Russia under this KGB dictatorship.
Lex Friedman (39:34):
I understand. But unfortunately, the reality is that a compromise is needed in order to reach an agreement.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (39:40):
So in you're understanding the fact that he is no in jailed after all the murders. He's not in jailed, assuming all the murders, and no one in the world is able to put him in his place, send him to prison. Do you think this is a small compromise?
Lex Friedman (39:56):
This is not a small compromise. And to forgive him will not be a small compromise
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (40:00):
To forgive? No one will forgive. This is absolutely impossible to forgive him. We cannot get into the head and soul of a person who lost their family. Nobody never will accept this. Absolutely impossible. I don't know. Do you have children?
Lex Friedman (40:14):
No, not yet. But I would like to.
Volodymyr Zelenskyy (40:17):
Yes. God bless. And this is the most important thing in life. And they simply took away the most precious thing from you. Will you ask who ruined your life before going to rip their head off? I'm just curious. They took your child away. Are you going to ask who did this? And they will answer that. That dude did this. You will say, oh, well then there are no questions. No, no, no. You will go fucking hell and bite their head off and it will be fair.
Andrea Chalupa (40:53):
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(42:01):
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