Moral Panic: Fact-Checking the War on Trans Kids
Convicted felon Donald Trump relies on a well-worn GOP playbook to scare their voters to the polls: stir up moral panic over LGBTQ people. Moms for Liberty—well-funded by shadowy right-wing interests—are out there banning books and promoting anti-trans, anti-gay laws straight from Viktor Orban’s Hungary and Putin’s Russia. We might inadvertently feed into their culture war hysteria if we don’t step back and see how their disinformation machine works.
As Erin Reed points out in her essential guide to our times “Erin in the Morning,” trans care is under attack in half of the country. Meanwhile, the far right stirs up fear, demonizing trans people, especially trans children and their families, just like Karl Rove did with gay marriage in 2004, to secure a second term for war criminal George W. Bush. But trans people have always existed. They’re part of human history, brutally erased by colonial powers, according to a must-read report from ABC News in our show notes below.
So, what’s the antidote to the far-right's moral panic? Call it out for what it is. Protect trans kids. Push back against oligarchs. Remember, this is about basic human rights. As highlighted in Abi Maxwell’s poignant memoir One Day I'll Grow Up and Be a Beautiful Woman: A Mother's Story, love and dignity for trans children are crucial to building safer, more compassionate communities for everyone.
Maxwell’s story focuses on her daughter, Greta, a courageous little girl who, from a very young age, understood she was a girl, even though she was born a boy. The confusion wasn’t Greta’s—it was the adults around her, including teachers and parents in their small New Hampshire town, who struggled to accept her identity. Maxwell recounts their family’s painful journey through relentless bullying and institutional barriers, a journey that mirrors the challenges faced by countless other trans families in America today.
Maxwell's memoir isn’t just a heart-wrenching tale of a mother fighting for her child; it’s also a stark reminder of how disinformation and fearmongering, often driven by far-right extremists, are weaponized to divide us. As we’ve seen with the rise of groups like Moms for Liberty, the attacks on LGBTQ+ rights—particularly against trans children—are often orchestrated by powerful interests looking to distract and manipulate voters.
In our interview with Maxwell, she sheds light on the far-right’s disinformation playbook and shares insights on how we can rise above it. It’s time to move beyond the hate and fear and build a society that values love, acceptance, and the dignity of all people, no matter their gender identity. Let’s start by protecting some of the most vulnerable among us: our trans kids.
The song you heard in this week’s show is “Doors Are Opening” by The Society of Rockets. Check out their brilliant work here! http://societyofrockets.org/ Lyrics can be found here: https://open.spotify.com/track/5l2PJsh3rleKtpTtYQkfDn
Ready to engage in meaningful discussions and connect with like-minded individuals? Join our new weekly political salon every Monday at 4 PM ET via Zoom! This space is designed for you to share frustrations, ask burning questions, seek support, and actively contribute to conversations that help shape Gaslit Nation. Whether you're a seasoned political junkie or just starting to find your voice, everyone is welcome.
Our goal is to build coalitions and foster collective healing during these challenging times. Thank you to everyone who made our first salon a success! We’re excited to continue these crucial discussions every Monday through the election, starting again on September 16 at 4 PM ET.
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Big Announcement! Andrea will be in Ft. Myers, Florida the last weekend of September to get out the vote and attend a fundraiser screening of Mr. Jones. Join us at one of these events in Florida:
Canvassing Party! Saturday, September 28 9am – 12pm EDT https://www.mobilize.us/leecountydec/event/680718/?force_banner=true&share_context=event_details&share_medium=copy_link
Mr. Jones Fundraiser Screening! https://secure.actblue.com/donate/mrjones?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTAAAR14pGkNMdGz5RkaU6eut5X8lpt5vFnPuPCjMJNkpVW06H4G0lBSCLE2ptM_aem_A0ooWTpEnmq0t133eeQuxw
Phonebank Party! Sunday, September 29 2 – 5pm EDT https://www.mobilize.us/leecountydec/event/680625/?force_banner=true&share_context=event_details&share_medium=copy_link
On September 16 at 7:00 PM ET: If you’re in NYC, join our in-person live taping with at the Ukrainian Institute of America in NYC. Celebrate the release of In the Shadow of Stalin, the graphic novel adaptation of my film Mr. Jones, directed by Agnieszka Holland. Gaslit Nation Patreon supporters get in free – so message us on Patreon to be added to the guest list. I will be joined by the journalist Terrell Starr, to talk about his latest trip to Ukraine.
On September 17 at 12:00 PM ET: Join our virtual live taping with investigative journalist Stephanie Baker, author of Punishing Putin: Inside the Global Economic War to Bring Down Russia. Her book has been highly praised by Bill Browder, the advocate behind the Magnitsky Act to combat Russian corruption.
On September 18 at 4:00 PM ET: Join our virtual live taping with the one and only Politics Girl, Leigh McGowan, author of A Return to Common Sense: How to Fix America Before We Really Blow It.
On September 24 at 12:00 PM ET: Join our virtual live taping with David Pepper, author of Saving Democracy. Join us as David discusses his new art project based on Project 2025.
All of those events, becoming a member of our Victory chat, bonus shows, all shows ad free, and more, come with your subscription on Patreon.com/Gaslit! Thank you to everyone who supports the show – we could not make Gaslit Nation without you!
Have you RSVP’ed to our next phonebank with Indivisible on Thursday September 17th? https://www.mobilize.us/indivisible/event/628701/
Show Notes:
Moms For Liberty founder 'thankful' for Trump's school transgender surgery lie
https://www.advocate.com/politics/moms-for-liberty-thankful-for-trump-school-trans-lie#toggle-gdpr
'Moral Values' Carried Bush, Rove Says
https://www.nytimes.com/2004/11/10/politics/campaign/moral-values-carried-bush-rove-says.html
Phonebank this Wednesday to Help Recruit Volunteers for PA!
Satanism and The Rolling Stones: 50 Years of ‘Sympathy for the Devil’
How ‘Will & Grace’ Had a Real-Life Political Impact on Marriage Equality
https://www.thewrap.com/will-grace-real-life-political-impact-marriage-equality/
Moms For Liberty Founder "Thankful" For Trump's School Trans Surgery Lie The former president has repeated a claim that schools are giving sex change operations to students and sending them home another gender.
https://www.erininthemorning.com/p/moms-for-liberty-founder-thankful
Trans people have 'been around for forever,' historians say Cultures around the world have long embraced alternative gender identities.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/transgender-gender-diverse-people-world/story?id=98017443
Andrea Chalupa (01:40):
The song you heard at the top of the show was Doors Are Opening by The Society of Rockets. I received this message on behalf of the band. A couple of us are avid listeners and we know how much you appreciate independent music. So we wanted to share our latest single with You Doors. Our opening is about new beginnings and seeking out the good in the world during Caco times. Keep fighting the good fight. And here's to handing the GOP their collective asses in the coming months. Yes, indeed. Thank you so much to the Society of Rockets. Check out their work@societyofrockets.org. Spotify, Bandcamp and YouTube. We'll link to their most excellent band in the show notes of this week's episode. Thank you. Thank you. Society of Rockets. Thank you to everyone who joined me in our debate Watch party Tuesday night in the Victory chat on Patreon.
(02:36):
I could not get through this evening without you, and we got through that hellscape together. This week's bonus show out Saturday for Patreon subscribers. We'll look at the debate as well as ways to help protect the 2024 election from convicted felon, serial rapist, Russian asset and Reagan Revolution, Frankenstein monster, Donald Trump. Speaking of monsters, we're a show about s slang monsters, and spooky season is upon us when they like to come out. So let's get creepy. The great Satanist Alistair Crowley was old friends with good old Walter Durante. They would engage in black magic sex orgies in 1920s, Paris Walter Ante would write Latin, I don't know, satanic hymns for these orgies, and they were opium addicts. They shared a lover. And it was from there that Walter Ante then brought his show over to Moscow to become the Moscow Bureau chief of the New York Times where he was cozy in the pocket of the Soviets spreading their lies while living a hedonistic lifestyle and leading a coverup of Stalin's genocide famine in Ukraine that mass murdered several millions, the vast majority in Ukraine.
(03:59):
A brutal legacy that Putin is building off today in his ongoing invasion of Ukraine. And I share that all because we have an important live taping of Gaslit Nation, September 16th at the beautiful Ukrainian Institute of America to celebrate the launch of in the Shadow of Stalin, the graphic novel adaptation of my journalistic thriller, Mr. Jones, all about that story starring the great Peter sars Gard as Walter Durante. And yes, there is a black magic orgy scene in the film as well as the graphic novel. So come pick up your copy at the book launch event on September 16th in New York City. And for our Patreon folks who keep our show going, you get in for free. You are on the guest list. Just message me through Patreon. And guess what? The beautiful people at Patreon who love our show so much and want to support us and all that we do, they are providing free Gaslit Nation tote bags to celebrate the launch of in the Shadow of Stalin, the graphic novel.
(05:07):
And so if you come to the book launch event to the Patreon folks, you not only get free admission to this beautiful reception, but you also get a free Gaslit Nation tote bag courtesy of our friends at Patreon who have done the Lord's work and supporting the show for many years. Thank you for all your help guys. I'm really excited for that. And also the inaugural class, I guess you could say, of folks that from Patreon, from our Gaslit Nation community, the listeners who support the show on Patreon at the truth color level or higher, those guys that showed up to our first ever political salon on Monday at 4:00 PM Eastern, they all get tote bags as well. I wanted to thank them for coming so I didn't have to talk to myself, which I fully expected to do and I was ready for. And if you miss the salon, we're going to post the video just for our Patreon community so you can enjoy the far reaching mind bending discussion that we had.
(06:07):
It was quite an adventure. The Gaslit Nation listeners, all their questions, comments took us, took us to the far corners of the multiverse. And if you want to come to the next one, we're having these political salons for the Gasland Nation community on Patreon Mondays at 4:00 PM Eastern through election day. And if we're having fun, we'll keep it going. And the purpose of the salon is for us to come together, find our voice, find our people, find our community, and just help each other through this surreal time of a convicted felon serial rapist, infamous Russian asset, being very close to possibly stealing back the White House with the help of his friends in the Kremlin and massive disinformation of the far right disinformation machine of Fox News, Sinclair local TV stations across the country, and so on and so on. It goes, it shouldn't be this way folks, but it is.
(07:00):
And as part of the salons why I love them so much is how organic the conversation is. One idea that came out of this latest salon that the first one that we just did is I was just sort of talking and this idea came out of doing a workshop in October for all of the Patreon folks to walk you all through how to do your own podcast. And I think that's so important now, especially as hedge funds and far right machines gobble up and destroy local news. So wherever you are across the country, getting your own podcast off the ground, even if you do it every once in a while, just working that muscle, exercising it, that could be an important contribution to wherever you live and shining a light locally and sharing your story of who you are. So look out for that workshop.
(07:51):
We'll have it in October. And meanwhile, work your voice, work your political muscle by coming to our salons Mondays at 4:00 PM Eastern. If you want to sign up for those, make sure to subscribe at the Truth Tell level or higher on Patreon and annual discounted subscriptions are available. So check those out as well. Look to the show notes for more info. Big announcement. I will be in Florida, Fort Myers, Florida because listen, y'all, there's something happening in Florida and there is a hardcore long time gaslit Nation listener who is part of Florida rising. She is a grassroots machine who is making sure that grassroots warriors, joyful warriors are getting on the ballot and races large and small across the state. And so I'm going to be going down there the last weekend of September to do door knocking and as well as have a fundraising screening of Mr. Jones, my with her community down there in Fort Myers, Florida.
(08:58):
And also we're going to have a phone bank. So it's going to be an action packed weekend in Fort Myers, Florida on the Gulf Coast. And I'm so excited to meet these incredible Gas LA Nation listeners in person who are on the front lines of taking on Victor Orin's dictatorship in Florida, also known as Ron DeSantis. So thank you, thank you, thank you to all the incredible Gaslit Nation listeners out there who refuse to give up, who refuse to look away and are shining their light blind in the dragons out there. So we're grateful for all of you and we see you. Alright everyone, so there's a lot happening in the news. Obviously Trump continues to double down about promising to be a dictatorship on day one. He's going to arrest all of us, throw us in the gulag. And I want to just draw attention to the fact that genocide that he's promising, right?
(09:51):
They're going to lock up 10 million asylum. They're lock up 10 million people who have immigrated to America recently, mostly non-white people, even those who have gone through the legal hoops to become citizens or get green cards, 10 million, 10 million. And he promises a bloody battle. He promises a mighty purge of the DOJ and it's going to be political blood bath violence unleashed terrifying. We all know that's terrifying and we're all trying to stop it. In fact, we have a phone bank on September 19th with our friends at Indivisible to do just that. So come join me for that. Look for it in the show notes. But I want to draw everyone's attention to a MAGA genocide being carried out right now against trans children and their families. So everyone that's biting their nails over the dictatorship that may come, it's already here. Project 2025 is already here and it's the most vulnerable who are slipping through the cracks of fascist machinery today and mines are being hacked.
(10:51):
A zombie army of MAGA fascists are being created and driven out through Moms for liberty right now. Donald Trump, Tucker Carlson Kremlin agent and are being paid to go across this country and use the Kremlin's well-worn playbook of driving out authoritarian leaning voters through anti-trans genocidal rhetoric, anti-gay rhetoric, and so on and so on. It goes. Carl Rove unleashed a similar strategy in 2004 with the Republicans pushing these anti-gay marriage amendments across a dozen states and that helped secure the reelection of war criminal George W. Bush, what they do, what the American far right does, as well as the Kremlin and Kremlin puppet or Ben and Hungary. What they do very, very well to consolidate power come in power, stay in power is they create moral panic. They create moral panic and they mind hack. So it's so important for to unpack that mind hacking how it works and how easy it is for even well-intentioned people to fall victim to it and spread disinformation.
(12:03):
It's happened to people I know I've had to gently try to back check them. It's complicated. It's very hard and it's done intentionally to drive out their base and divide the left. And so with us in this extremely important and intimate conversation is the author Abby Maxwell, who wrote The Incredible memoir. One Day I'll Grow Up and Be a Beautiful Woman, a Mother's Story. Everyone needs to get this book. It is beautifully written. It is a heart wrenching story. It will absolutely clarify the culture war fog out there over the issue of trans rights. It simplifies it, it humanizes it, it cuts through all the noise. Again, the name of the book is, one Day I'll Grow Up and Be a Beautiful Woman, A mother's story by Abby Maxwell about her extremely brave child. Greta, who was born a boy, but understood at a very young age on her own, understood at a very young age that he felt more like a she and Greta began to become Greta and express herself and let her true spirit come out.
(13:26):
And this was all happening at a very young age. And Greta came out with confidence with that natural beauty of a child full of wonder and excitement and no filter and just living out loud, just saying what they felt and being how they felt. And Greta was never confused. Greta was brave and living her life out loud like any well loved child. It was the grownups around Greta in their small New Hampshire town that were deeply confused and systemically bullying Greta and her family and teaching their own children in Greta's school to bully and hate as well. So here to share her surreal story that is one of many happening across America today and what it tells us about the crisis of democracy across America and what to do about it is Abby Maxwell, author of the Must Read memoir. One day I'll grow up and Be a Beautiful Woman, A Mother's story. But first, here's Felon Donald Trump at a press conference in his Kremlin Safe House known as Mar-a-Lago, followed by convicted felon Donald Trump speaking at a Moms for Liberty event just two weeks ago in Washington DC
Donald Trump (14:48):
She's a radical left person at a level that nobody's seen. She picked a radical left man that is, he's got things done that he has positions that are just not, it's not even possible to believe that they exist. He's going for things that nobody's ever even heard of. Heavy into the transgender world, heavy into lots of different worlds.
Donald Trump (15:16):
The transgender thing is incredible. Think of it, your kid goes to school and comes home a few days later with an operation. The school decides what's going to happen with your child. And many of these child 15 years later say, what the hell happened? Who did this to me?
Andrea Chalupa (15:36):
And to fact check that here is the truth from the American journalist Erin Reed writing in her publication, Erin in the Morning. Currently gender affirming care for transgender youth is banned in roughly half of us states. While most of the remaining states have moved to protect access even in those states. However, transgender individuals often wait years to access surgeries which require multiple letters of recommendation and often come with expensive medical bills that are inconsistently covered by insurance. A very small number of these surgeries are performed on older transgender youth, typically those age 16 to 18 and mostly consist of top surgeries. In such cases, youth must obtain parental permission and usually face stringent approval criteria such as older teenage transgender boys stable in their gender identity, who find binding uncomfortable over long time periods. In all cases, care is provided through accredited US facilities and medical practitioners, not through schools, and certainly not without parental consent.
(16:43):
To tell us more about this MAGA disinformation campaign, scapegoating trans kids and their families. Here's Abby Maxwell, author of the Must Read memoir. One day I'll Grow up and Be a Beautiful Woman, A Mother's Story. If every American read this book donated it to their local library that will help keep trans kids and their families safe. First of all, I just want to say that your book has the power to do for trans human rights in America. What Will and Grace did for gay marriage. I would love to see Reese Witherspoon or some other empathetic Hollywood producer, queen maker take your book and turn it into the film that it deserves to be to humanize the story of raising trans children in America at a time when they have a great big target on their heads and they're being dehumanized by fascists, by actual Nazis in America.
(17:46):
So thank you for writing this story. Thank you for providing such an intimate look at what it is like, the reality that trans people are real. They've been among us throughout history. It's very natural. Even people on our side on the left, liberals are falling for the moral panic and are getting spooked by whatever they're being pumped on Instagram and other social media sites. So I want to just say thank you, thank you, thank you. And also, how are you feeling after the hell you and your family have been through New Hampshire raising brave, beautiful, Greta,
Abby Maxwell (18:24):
Thank you. Thank you so much. It means so much to me to hear that because that's why I wrote the book. I really felt all along, like if people could just look through a window and see into my home, they would understand. They would see a human being and what they're doing and they would stop hopefully. But we are doing well. My family has moved now out of New Hampshire. When I finished the final draft of the book, we were still believing in the non-discrimination law that New Hampshire had passed, even though there was anti-trans legislation year after year. This past year there were more than 18 anti L-G-B-T-Q bills in New Hampshire, and most of them aimed at trans youth and we just couldn't survive it anymore. And we moved to California. So we've been here just over a month and two anti-trans spills passed the day we finished unpacking in our new apartment in New Hampshire, sorry,
Andrea Chalupa (19:32):
New Hampshire, where you were born and raised and which is home to you and that.
Abby Maxwell (19:35):
Yeah, and we really thought we loved our home there. We really thought we would stay there, but we could not survive the ongoing ization.
Andrea Chalupa (19:46):
Yeah, I think about that all the time. Genocide and geography as a Ukrainian, right? Ukrainians are stuck living next to Russia. And then I think how safe I am living an ocean continent in ocean away in America compared to my family back in Ukraine. It's amazing how genocides come down to geography. It is
Abby Maxwell (20:06):
Wild, wild when you really start to understand that in your body and not just as a concept that feels far away. I mean, I guess as you said, when you start to humanize
Andrea Chalupa (20:17):
It. And how is Greta doing now?
Abby Maxwell (20:20):
She's doing so much better in New Hampshire. Last year she had essentially dropped out of sixth grade. She was doing well for the most part, but then by sixth grade she becomes more and more aware of what's going on politically. It trickles down no matter how much we try to protect her kids started talking about upcoming election wearing Trump paraphernalia to school. And that's really hard to navigate as a child who's like, wait, my friend might not accept me as a human being. I mean that's hard for adults to navigate. So that was so hard for her to navigate and in a place where anti L-G-B-T-Q hate speech started to get just thrown around. And now that we're in California where it is in the area that we are in, it is just such a different culture. I mean, there's pride flags in every single one of her classrooms.
(21:27):
There's signs in every classroom that say homophobic speech equals hate speech, and it's against policy. They have huge L-G-B-T-Q Club and they're really proud about it. And whereas in New Hampshire, I mean that didn't exist and they weren't even allowed to read books about her there and here it's so normalized. So it's like night and day really watching her in a rough culture versus here where she feels accepted and safe as a human. And obviously there's still challenges. I mean, first of all, just like being a kid, but also she does have additional challenges in her life, but she can actually show up and do schoolwork. And it got to the point where she really couldn't for as much as in the book, we moved from our small town to Concord, New Hampshire, and it was so much better and people were trying so hard, but still the acceptance was just not deeply embedded and it was getting worse and worse because of all this legislation.
Andrea Chalupa (22:39):
Yeah, your story really reminded me of Shirley Jackson's famous short story of the lottery. Oh, I never thought of that. Tell me why. Oh, well, so when Shirley Jackson came out with her story of a small rural town of a bunch of nice white Christians gathering together, making small talk, the children having fun, collecting a pile of stones, and then the wooden box comes out as it has throughout generations in this small town. And a name is picked from the box. And the winner is a woman who rushes to join the group. She was running late, she had lots of housework she had to complete, so she joins the others and she learns that her name was picked from the box this year, which means she's the one who's been selected to be stoned. That's how the story ends with the towns folk, these polite rule towns, folk closing in on her to stone her and the kids joining in. And when I believe it was the New Yorker that published the lottery, and America exploded with resentment because it hit such a collective nerve because that was the same America that was engaging in all this moral panic, whether it was black civil rights, women's liberation or gay liberation and so on and so on. And the fact that the children were taught this hate, just as you described.
Abby Maxwell (24:00):
I need to reread that. I'm so glad you pointed that out. I mean, I love her and it's been years.
Andrea Chalupa (24:06):
I want to ask you for one of the biggest issues I have with the war on trans children. Well, there's obviously the genocidal aspect of it and how it literally tortures children and their families. That's the biggest issue I have. But in addition to that, it's those on the left, those who are in the collective resistance against MAGA fascism who feel that trans children, their existence or their rights is a bridge too far and they fall victim to the disinformation out there that's really trying to divide us intentionally. So what would you say to those who feel that trans kids are just falling victim to trends, peer pressure, social media teachers who might be progressive and indoctrinating them with the woke virus?
Abby Maxwell (24:57):
In a lot of ways, I think my book is for them because while I wouldn't say that I ever went that far to feel that things were a fa or kids were being indoctrinated, I was really nervous and uncomfortable and I wasn't aware of, I thought I was aware, I thought I was accepting. But when it came into my own home, I realized how much I did not know and how much transphobia in the general culture had informed my thinking. One of the things I would say is, well, my child, she was three, four years old when she started telling me who she was and she didn't know the word transgender. She hadn't been to school. She didn't know any of that. So that's not how it happened for us. I guess I would just also say, no, that's not true. Just for a minute, stop. Take a look. Don't judge. You're falling prey to a lot of misinformation. And these are human beings. And in addition, trans people have always existed and they
Andrea Chalupa (26:20):
Obviously exist because they exist. It's across cultures. And I just want to alert my listeners, go to the show notes. I link to an article from a b, C news looking at the historians who share research into how trans people have existed across the centuries across cultures. And in fact, it was European colonialism that tried to erase them originally.
Abby Maxwell (26:42):
And I would say that now kids are feeling empowered to come out and not live their life suffering, being someone who they're not. That's a wonderful, wonderful thing. I want the world to have more of these beautiful humans who show up and say, this is who I am. There's nothing more beautiful than that in our fear around it is transphobia.
Andrea Chalupa (27:10):
Absolutely. So Donald Trump is going around, he's really beating the drum on anti-trans genocidal rhetoric. He's saying that your kids are going to go to school, they're going to get these forced sex change operations and come back at home a different gender. And I'm just saying, first of all, do you understand that healthcare, any medical procedure, that's the number one cause of bankruptcy in America because we have a hyper capitalism greed crisis. And so if you're telling me that schools are providing free medical care and services, then sign me up for a mammogram. Because my most recent mammogram, I got a bill for my insurance for $140. Okay, so if there's a school that's, lemme know what else they're offering.
Abby Maxwell (27:59):
Oh no. We told our daughter that the other day, and I mean she was just cracking up. What is going on? How is that something that a presidential candidate is saying that she's going to go to school and get surgery?
Andrea Chalupa (28:13):
Yeah, I mean, given how cost prohibitive the surgery is just in general for anybody, even the most determined, it's not happening Willy-nilly everyone. But they're really convincing people that the peer pressure, the social media, all the new books that are out there are going to force people to get or influence folks to get a sex change operation. And they'll have regrets. It doesn't work that way.
Abby Maxwell (28:35):
And I think some of those things, people very easily cast aside and they're like, oh, that's not real. But it is creeping into people's consciousness that maybe we shouldn't let trans kids play sports. Maybe giving them medical care is a step too far. And people on the left are really, I think starting to see that. And I can't stop thinking about how you are in essence dehumanizing my child. Because if you lived in a state where it was where your child was categorically banned from joining a sports team and where her medical care was banned or challenge, you would know that it was unlivable for you that there is no way you could continue to live there and expect to have health and safety. But people seem to think it's different for us for trans people. So to me, I'm like the only logical conclusion is that you do not see that my child is the same as your child. Yeah,
Andrea Chalupa (29:48):
Yeah. No, absolutely. And so what would you say to those who do have a problem with girls playing on sports teams with girls? Because they're really trying to get people to be like your daughter is going to go up against someone who is biologically born a male and therefore has superior strength and that's going to put her life in danger. They're beating that drum heavily across Rupert Murdoch's entire disinformation empires. And I think it's working on people on the left. I've heard a lot of, well-meaning folks, repeat that. What do you say to that?
Abby Maxwell (30:28):
Well, I think that any argument against trans kids in sports can be broken down pretty quickly because for one thing, I don't think any of us want to be weighing all the girls before we let them play a sport. It is a really scary road to start looking at body size before we allow girls to play sports. I don't think people want that for cis or trans girls. So I think things like that can get broken down pretty quickly when people really think about it. Also, when you look at the Olympics or collegiate sports, they have strict hormone regulations. And the Olympics, for example, has been allowing trans women to play sports for over a decade. I can't remember the year, but for a long time. And it wasn't until very recently that a trans woman ever even qualified and she lost. But these bills anyway are not aimed at that.
(31:38):
They're aimed at kids as young as five years old through high school. And when we ban them, my daughter will never go through male puberty. She lives in a body like mine. And there is no way that anyone can tell that she is transgender and she's not bigger than the other girls. She doesn't have these hormones that are different than them, like all of these things. So a categorical ban means that you are banning her based on who she comes to the world as. And that's the definition of discrimination. You cannot pick her out of a line of people and say, you might as well ban her from playing the flute or anything else. It's so random. And I think when people start really looking into it, they see, Ooh, this feels like a dystopian novel. We cannot start doing this to bodies. And also my daughter's on the cross country running team this year.
(32:46):
She's 11 years old. I drop her off at practice and it's such a simple thing. She just runs through the woods with these kids and on the one hand it means nothing. It's just this little activity she does on Mondays and Wednesdays and Fridays. But on the other hand, it means so much to her. She's new to the school and the state, she's making friends on the team. She feels encouraged to do better at school because she has to keep a certain level of grades in order to stay on the team. It helps her so much with her emotional regulation, with her health. I mean, just across the board, we know all the research about sports. So I sit there, I walk the trails while she's running and I can't stop thinking about it, how small of a thing it is, but how big of a thing it is and how it is illegal for her in most states. And she had her first meet last Friday, and she got the very last place, very last of all of the girls. She was the very last. So I don't know what to say. And also, yeah, she could win if she really practiced and decided she wanted to be a runner, she could have just as much of a chance as any other girl. She's
Andrea Chalupa (34:13):
Just a
Abby Maxwell (34:13):
Normal
Andrea Chalupa (34:13):
Kid.
Abby Maxwell (34:14):
Yeah.
Andrea Chalupa (34:15):
Yeah. I wanted to share a story. A friend of mine went to Iran for a film shoot and she was scouting rural villages and sort of the village head, the chief, I don't know what the village boss came out to greet her. And he had a little boy with him who he would eventually go on to explain to my friend, that's my daughter, but she prefers to dress like a boy. She wants to be a boy. And so we let her, and here in rule Iran, you have a trans child,
Abby Maxwell (34:50):
Right?
Andrea Chalupa (34:50):
And unfortunately for that child, they're in Iran, which is basically the same as New Hampshire if you were a trans child. And then I remember growing up very well in Montessori kindergarten in my small hometown, and there was this little boy who loved to get dressed up with beautiful gowns and pearls and plastic high heel pumps. And I never thought it was odd at all. In fact, he annoyed the hell out of me. We used to compete over the fancy clothes, excuse my competition. But to me as a little child, it just seemed so natural that we would have so much fun expressing ourselves with these fancy clothes at school. But I did hear a teacher say to him, that's for girls. And so I, as a child, I thought it was natural, normal, but this grownup was telling us that it was wrong. It was not for him. So this is all taught. It is. It
Abby Maxwell (35:50):
Is so taught, and it's wild to me to think about how different it is depending on where you are. We were in our small town, it was in New England, such an oppressive culture. And now that we're in California, I think so often of how much trauma my daughter could have avoided and we all could have avoided if we had been here in a place where people aren't so afraid of it,
Andrea Chalupa (36:21):
But not everyone can afford to uproot their life and move to a state as expensive and far away as California. That's the crisis.
Abby Maxwell (36:32):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we were so incredibly privileged to be able to pull this off. We were able to sell our house and we were able to do it super fast and then that gave us enough savings to live off of for a little while while we rebuilt our lives. We were so privileged to be able to do that.
Andrea Chalupa (36:55):
What advice do you have for families who are stuck in what we call Republican hostage states? These so-called red states who are raising a trans child or a queer child and they feel that same terror on them. What advice would you give them, especially if they can't move?
Abby Maxwell (37:17):
I've been thinking about that a lot because somebody else mentioned a similar question to me and I thought, what kind of advice do I have as a person who felt like I will die from this if I continue year after year fighting this legislation and New Hampshire's not even the worst of it by far, I will not survive it. So what kind of advice can I possibly give to those families? And I think my advice is for the people surrounding those families, I think it's for the people who love those people who love those families to say that they need you. They need you to come out, they need you to speak up, they need you to see what is happening to them and that it's the same as if this were happening to their children and they need you to shoulder the weight for them to speak up at legislative sessions or to bring them food to do something with their children. It is so exhausting and so isolating because people don't seem to understand how bad it is. So really, I think at this point, my advice is for the people who supposedly love those families,
Andrea Chalupa (38:43):
You're right, it becomes culture, war, noise, and people forget that you need help, that you need someone just to show up. We've had the historian, Timothy Snyder, who's an expert in fascism and how it works on the show a couple times now, and he wrote a great book called On Tyranny, very Concrete Steps We Can All Take to Stand Up to Authoritarianism. And one of the key points is you have to be visible. Visibility is everything. You have to shine your light out there. That's a point we're always repeating here on Gaslit Nation is that we need you wherever you are, your voice matters. You need to shine your light out there and you need to show up. And we can't advantage each other. We all have to link arms. And so I think that's just such a good reminder to all of us on how to be better allies is to check in on your friends who are raising LGBTQ plus children in America that are being deliberately scapegoated in this political violence, this power grab by MAGA fascism right now to steamroll over our democracy.
Abby Maxwell (39:45):
And I think people are really intimidated to speak up because they think, I don't know anything. I don't want to say the wrong thing. That sort of thing. When I first had to start speaking up because it was my child, I knew absolutely nothing other than that my child needed rights. You don't have to know anything beyond that to speak up. And your voice matters. Your body matters. Just having your body in the room. I would go to all these legislative hearings. There were times when it was my husband and I or the only people there in the room speaking against these horrible, horrible, terrifying bills that are trying to remove trans people from every aspect of public life. We're the only people there speaking up for trans rights, but there's some 10 random guys who knows who they're and how they decided to miss work to be there to speak out for these bills. And I know they don't know any trans people. If they did, they wouldn't be there. So the other side is showing up and they don't know anything about it,
Andrea Chalupa (41:04):
Right? They're just parroting talking points from Moms of Liberty and they're getting that from Orban, Hungary and Putin's Russia that also use the same playbook. And so I want to ask you, what do you want from the Democrats, the opposition party to do the DOJ? Obviously we're stuck with Merrick Garland's, DOJ for the time being. That's thankfully coming to an end soon and then we'll get a new DOJ, hopefully an effective one that acts with greater urgency. What would you want the powers that that are supposed to be, the guardrails of our democracy to do, to protect families like yours?
Abby Maxwell (41:47):
I think it is mind blowing to people when they realize that my family can't move to most, at least half of the states in this country because our daughter doesn't have rights there. And I think it's shocking to most people in the US that we don't have just a national equality law that includes trans people. The fact that my daughter's rights depends on state to state basis is her medical care that is so dangerous. So what would I want? I would want an equality law that supersedes all of this state's decisions. I don't think that there's any state legislature that should ever be deciding a child's healthcare. Anybody's healthcare,
Andrea Chalupa (42:44):
Right? And under this Supreme Court, unless we get court reform, we're going to be stuck with this state by state, hopefully temporary solution. Do you have hope that if Kamala Harris and Tim Walls win that things might change, especially given that Tim Walls was, he turned his state into a refuge for trans families?
Abby Maxwell (43:06):
I think that's such a good question. I mean, I think I have hope in him in terms of a cultural change in the sense that he is this, I tried to get someone to start an L-G-B-T-Q Club at my daughter's school and they were like, we can't find an L-G-B-T-Q teacher. So I think that he is a good example of what it looks like to be an ally, and I think we need more of that in culture. But do I have hope of things changing? Maybe in eight years I don't see this stopping in the next four years. I had a lot of hope when Biden took office and I think he did some important things, but he took office the year he took office. There were two anti L-G-B-T-Q bills in New Hampshire, and by this year there were over 18. So I don't know if I have hope that they can stop that quickly. I just don't know. Do I think there will be more anti L-G-B-T-Q bills next year? Absolutely. I have hoped that it will end eventually, and I know it would be a lot worse if Trump became president rather than Harris, but stopping what's happening in the States, I don't know.
Andrea Chalupa (44:39):
What are some of the groups that are driving such a explosion of these laws, this law
Abby Maxwell (44:47):
Fair? I mean, I think the Moms for Liberty is a huge one. I think someone else would know better than I do. Other than that, the answer to that question, what I know is that the laws are, they are copycat laws across the country. I don't know what the, I mean, do you know more about what
Andrea Chalupa (45:12):
The, well, I'll tell you. So part of Victor Orbin, for instance, Kremlin Close Ally, Victor Orbin,
(45:20):
He has edited his country's constitution many times, including embedding this warfare against LGBTQ plus people, even though members of his own party have been caught engaging in gay sex orgies, which God bless them if that's what they want to do. But it's like, it's just the level of hypocrisy is just so clear. And Putin, of course, was the original anti-gay law innovator in Russia to consolidate power and really entrench his dictatorship there. But DeSantis, for instance, modeled Florida's anti-gay laws with the help of moms for liberty based on what Orban was doing in Hungary. So that's the pipeline and that's why it's been increasing in recent years is because Russia and MAGA really need to win this election to keep Trump out of prison and to end his court battles and for Russia to finally swallow up Ukraine and then move on to the rest of Europe and their genocidal piracy. When you put it that way, it's
Abby Maxwell (46:18):
So
Andrea Chalupa (46:18):
Wild
Abby Maxwell (46:19):
Because it's like that is so far away from a child just trying to go to school. I know that the people showing up in small towns to stop these children aren't aware of all of what you just said, right? They are so
Andrea Chalupa (46:36):
They're zombies in a zombie apocalypse. They've been mind hacked. And that's why it's important that us on the left, we understand how that mind hacking operates and what it intends to do, and we get clear ourselves on what the facts are versus the
Abby Maxwell (46:51):
Disinformation, right?
Andrea Chalupa (46:53):
So that's why everyone needs to read your book. We're going link to it in the show notes. I am happy to stay in touch with you and be your cheerleader to help get your book into, made it into a movie. I really do believe that it will make such a cultural impact that is long overdue for trans human rights in America and around the world. I want to just ask with a final question, given all that you've lived through all that you've witnessed, is there anything that makes you hopeful about America and the future that we face?
Abby Maxwell (47:30):
I think I'm hopeful. Yes. I think that there's a lot of incredible voices out there. I mean, my family has just been through so many years of trauma at the hands of the government that it's hard for me to pinpoint what my love of this country is, or my hope for it is. I know that we have a lot of freedom that we cannot have in other places in the world, that other people don't have around the world, but I think that my family has, we are just barely getting our heads above water. We are just starting to want to live in the world again, for real. We did not want to live anymore. It just got so exhausting to be constantly traumatized. So I hope that in another few months I can have a clearer answer for you in terms of my hope for this country. But I think that no one in my family is quite there yet, other than to say we are so grateful to have been able to make it to where we are now and start to look around and say, Hey, we want to be in the world and what can we do?
Andrea Chalupa (48:55):
Thank you so very much Abby Maxwell, and we will stay in touch.
Abby Maxwell (49:00):
Thank you.
Andrea Chalupa (52:49):
Our discussion continues and you can get access to that by signing up at the truth level and higher on patreon@patreon.com slash it's go time. We have a lot of events gearing up for the election. Join our new Monday political salons held over Zoom every Monday through the election at 4:00 PM Eastern. Join the discussion and help shape the show by sharing what's on your mind. Sign up by subscribing at the truth, color level or higher on patreon.com/gaslit. On September. Join the Gaslit Nation Debate Watch Party in the Victory chat on Patreon. It's going to be a debate between democracy versus dictatorship, featuring a convicted felon who belongs in prison, not on a debate stage on September 16th at 7:00 PM Eastern. If you're in New York, join our in-person live taping at the Ukrainian Institute of America in New York City. Celebrate the release of In the Shadow of Stalin, the graphic novel adaptation of my Phil, Mr. Jones, directed by the great Escha Holland Gaslit Nation.
(53:59):
Paton reporters get in free, so message us on Patreon to be added to the guest list, a wine and cheese and whatever else they serve there will be followed. So excited. I'll be joined by the journalist Terrell Starr to talk about his latest trip to Ukraine on September 17 at 12:00 PM Eastern. Join our virtual live taping with investigative journalist Stephanie Baker, author of Punishing Putin inside the Global Economic War to Bring down Russia. Her book has been highly praised by Bill Browder, the advocate behind the Magnitsky Act, combat Russian corruption on September 18th at 4:00 PM Eastern. Join our virtual live taping with the one and only politics girl, Lee McGowan, author of A Return to Common Sense, how to Fix America Before We Really Blow It. On September 24 at 12:00 PM Eastern, join our virtual live taping with David Pepper, author of Saving Democracy. Join us as David discusses his new art project based on Project 2025 that's all about resistance, art, all those events, becoming a member of our Victory Chat bonus shows.
(55:09):
All shows ad free and more. Come with your subscription on patreon.com/nation is produced by Andrea Chalupa. That's me. Our production manager is Nicholas Torres, and our associate producer is Carlin dle. If you like what we do, leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us reach more listeners and check out our Patreon. It keeps us going for original music. And Gaslit Nation is produced by David Whitehead, Martin Berg, Nick Barr, Damian Arga, and Carlin Dagel. Our logo design was donated to us by my friend Hamish Mite of the New York based Firm order. Thank you so much. Hamish Gaslit Nation would like to thank our supporters at the producer level on Patreon hire. Ice Bear is defiant. Work for Better Prep for Trouble. Lily Wachowski. John Schoenthal, Ellen McGirt, Larry Gusan. D Scott Ann Bertino, David East, Joseph Mara, Jr. Mark, mark, Sean Bird, Kristen Custer, Kevin Gannon, Sandra Colemans, Katie Ma, James D. Leonard, Leo Chalupa, Harold Goad, Marcus j Trent, Joe Darcy and Marshall, DL. S Sinfield, Nicole Spear Abby Road, janz RA Robinson, Sarah Gray, Diana Gallagher, Leah Campbell, Jared Lombardo, Abby Voss and Tanya Chalupa. Thank you to everyone who supports the show. We could not make Gaslit Nation without you
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