How to Stop Trump from Stealing the Election
Days before the 2016 election, Rudy Giuliani went on Fox News promising a "big surprise," emphasizing his point with a Crypt Keeper cackle. "We've got a couple of things up our sleeves that should turn this around." The vast majority of the polls had Hillary Clinton comfortably winning.
Paul Manafort, the Kremlin's longtime operative in Ukraine and Trump’s longtime friend and neighbor, had laid low in recent weeks following a bombshell report out of Ukraine that he took millions of dollars in off-the-books payments from Ukrainian kleptocrat and wannabe strongman Viktor Yanukovych. However, Manafort broke his silence days before the election and wrote on Twitter: "Battleground states moving to Trump en masse. Media not liking the pattern. By Sunday, Trump will be over 270 in polls." But the polls said no such thing.
Why were Giuliani and Manafort suddenly so confident Trump would pull off an upset? The 400-page Mueller Report and the bipartisan Senate Intelligence report both exposed how the Trump campaign and the Kremlin came to power in 2016: through pumping out disinformation to suppress the vote, cyberattacks stealing sensitive data, and hacking the voting systems of all 50 states. That very illegal strategy has been in play ever since and is mainstream for the MAGA fascist movement openly trying to overthrow our democracy and install a Christian nationalist dictatorship, with Trump as their long-awaited strongman, a perfect God’s imperfect vessel.
This special episode of Gaslit Nation looks at the ways Trump is trying to steal the election and what must be done to stop him. This is an episode you’re going to want to share with your family and friends. Terrell Starr of the Black Diplomats Podcast and Substack also joins the show to discuss the US election in the context of global affairs. This week’s bonus show, available to subscribers at the Truth-teller ($5/month) level and higher, answers questions from our listeners at the Democracy Defender ($10/month) level and higher, including on how to hold Rupert Murdoch accountable and reasons why Ukraine must join NATO. Thank you to everyone who supports the show – we could not make Gaslit Nation without you!
Join the conversation with a community of listeners at Patreon.com/Gaslit and get bonus shows, all episodes ad free, submit questions to our regular Q&As, get exclusive invites to live events, and more! Subscribe today at Patreon.com/Gaslit!
Book Launch Reception for In the Shadow of Stalin: The Story of Mr. Jones – Sept 16
Monday September 16th 7pm at the Ukrainian Institute of America join us for a wine reception and live taping of Gaslit Nation with Terrell Starr for the launch of the graphic novel adaptation of Andrea’s film Mr. Jones! Get in free by subscribing at the Truth-teller level or higher on Patreon!
Indivisible x Gaslit Nation Phonebank Party! — August 15 at 7pm ET
Every third Thursday through election day and on election eve in November we’re calling voters in Republican-hostage states in the Midwest with Indivisible to ensure a Democratic Senate. Sign up here to join us: https://www.mobilize.us/indivisible/event/628701/
Sister District x Gaslit Nation Phonebank Parties! – Every Wednesday in October!
Every Wednesday through October, we’re phone-banking with Sister District, calling voters in Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona, and Georgia. Sign up here to join us: https://www.mobilize.us/sisterdistrictnyc/event/642096/
Show Notes:
Can the Reagan Revolution Be Undone? https://www.gaslitnationpod.com/episodes-transcripts-20/2023/12/13/reagan-revolution-jesse-eisinger-part-2
Clip: “‘Trump’s Project 2025 leader Kevin Roberts: “We are winning… In ways that the other side doesn't yet know… We’re not gonna tell you everything that's coming… [Get] ready to fight’’ https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1816573433741795598
Clip: Trump: 'You won't have to vote anymore my beautiful Christians' https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ngy_VknAfXw
Clip: Venezuela elections could end Maduro’s rule https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-6PSFBwNt4
Clip: Maduro Wins Venezuela Election, Opposition Rejects Poll Results https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIfBk9F7rWU
Clip: Giuliani hinted at 'a pretty big surprise' days before the FBI announcement https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDY4tSibYpo
Clip: ““To all the athletes who could not come and be here because Russia killed them. I dedicate this to them.” Olga Kharlan after winning bronze at the Paris #Olympics.” https://x.com/United24media/status/1818200501890023865
Clip: “.@jemelehill “Do you think Donald Trump is afraid to debate you? @KamalaHarris: “He should be.” https://x.com/notcapnamerica/status/1818039705038110886
A data tool being used to challenge voter registrations is raising many concerns https://www.npr.org/2024/06/04/nx-s1-4991945/voter-registration-mass-challenges-georgia
The Georgia Voting Machine Theft Poses a Direct Threat to the 2024 Election https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/10/georgia-trump-vote-theft-2024-election.html
Trump allies breach U.S. voting systems in search of 2020 fraud ‘evidence’ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-election-breaches/
Georgia Senate Democrats: “What the hell is this, @GaSecofState? Canceling voters?! This tool empowers conspiracy theorists and other bad actors to deny Georgians the right to vote. We demand this be taken down immediately.” #gapol #gasenatedems https://x.com/GASenateDems/status/1817949715234717988
Should Ukraine join Nato? Open letter We don’t agree that Nato membership for Ukraine would provoke a conflict with Russia
Inside Ziklag, the Secret Organization of Wealthy Christians Trying to Sway the Election and Change the Country
https://www.propublica.org/article/inside-ziklag-secret-christian-charity-2024-election
Manafort tweets for the first time since being ousted from Trump campaign
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/11/paul-manafort-first-tweet-since-leaving-trump-230735
He Confirmed Russia Meddled in 2016 to Help Trump. Now, He’s Speaking Out Trump viewed the 2017 intel report as his 'Achilles heel.' The analyst who wrote it opens up about Trump, Russia and what really happened in 2016
Cyberattack hits Georgia county at center of voting software breach State officials in Georgia have severed Coffee County’s access to statewide election systems while the breach is being addressed. https://cyberscoop.com/cyberattack-hits-georgia-county-at-center-of-voting-software-breach/
Voting experts warn of ‘serious threats’ for 2024 from election equipment software breaches https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/voting-experts-warn-of-serious-threats-for-2024-from-election-equipment-software-breaches
Election officials prepare for a range of threats in 2024, from hostile countries to conspiracy theorists
Securing the 2024 Election Facebook X LinkedIn Federal, state, and local officials must work together to safeguard the democratic process. https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/policy-solutions/securing-2024-election
Voters are being told that the election system is both under attack and vulnerable to manipulation.
https://theintercept.com/2024/03/06/homeland-security-us-elections/
Georgia election officials withheld evidence in voting machine breach, group alleges A filing accuses county election officials of withholding records related to unauthorized copying of voting software by Trump allies in 2021.
How DEF CON’s election hackers are trying to protect themselves There may be lessons for 2024 election workers in the precautions taken at the conference to protect election security researchers from harassment.
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/08/13/def-cons-election-hackers-2024-00110981
Electronic pollbook security raises concerns going into 2024
Cyberattack forces Georgia county to sever connection to state voter registration system https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/26/politics/georgia-coffee-county-cyberattack-voter-system/index.html
The Coalition of Good Governance on the Coffee County, GA April 2024 Cyberattack and Government Response https://myemail-api.constantcontact.com/And-Now--a-Fourth-Coffee-County-Breach--.html?soid=1109272168263&aid=ToQ-Ima3GxI
Kevin Roberts, Heritage Foundation (00:04):
I told you, I would tell you why it's bad. Maybe add a little bit of color, but also tell you why we're going to win. We are winning. There are a lot of victories that have been secured. Some of them are partial, some of them in ways that the other side doesn't yet know are foundations for what's coming. And that's just the beginning. And we're not going to tell you everything that's coming because for the first time that I'm aware of the conservative movement or as I really like to put it, the common sense movement in the United States has really nothing to do with ideology is ready to fight.
Donald Trump (00:42):
You won't have to do it anymore. Four more years. You know what? It'll be fixed. It'll be fine. You won't have to vote anymore. My beautiful Christians, I love you Christians. I'm a Christian. I love you. Get out. You got to get out and vote. In four years, you don't have to vote again. We'll have it fixed. So good. You're not going to have to vote
ABC News Clip on Venezuela (01:02):
One Venezuelans head to the polls Sunday. They will have the best chances in a generation to break the chain of populist dictatorships that have turned one of South America's wealthiest countries into one of the poorest. Beginning with President Hugo Chavez in 1999 and continuing with Nicolás Maduro. Today, Venezuela's oil production is now only a quarter of what it once was. Further crippled by economic sanctions. The UN estimates that 8 million Venezuelans have fled many having the goal of finding work and a peaceful life here in the United States. Joining us now is Venezuelan political analyst, Liz Rebecca Alarcón. Liz, thank you so much for joining us. Really appreciate your time. Maduro is seeking his third six year term, almost all pollsters to have him losing to his main opponent, Edmundo Gonzalez. Can this election be free and fair?
Liz Rebecca Alarcón (01:57):
These elections are going to be with results that are too big to steal. We know that Edmundo Gonzalez and Maria Corina Machado have the popular vote, and we also know that conditions in Venezuela are not free and fair. But what we have seen in these elections is that the groundswell of support the on the ground operations to monitor the polls and to really build an excitement and a conviction to get out the vote on Sunday, is what has so much international attention. On this moment where Maduro is going to be under watch,
Bloomberg News Clip (02:40):
Venezuela's Electoral Council has declared President Nicolás Maduro, the winner of the election. The result comes despite independence. Exit polling suggesting opposition candidate at Edmundo Gonzalez had captured twice as many votes.
Andrea Chalupa (03:06):
Hey everyone, my name's Andrea Chalupa. I'm a journalist and filmmaker and the writer and producer of the journalistic thriller, Mr. Jones, about Stalin's genocide famine in Ukraine. The film the Kremlin doesn't want you to see. So be sure to watch it and be sure to come to our Gaslit Nation live taping for the book launch of In the Shadow of Stalin, the story of Mr. Jones, the graphic novel adaptation of my shooting script for the film. I'm going to be joined by my dear friend Terrell Starr of the Black Diplomats podcast and Substack on the evening of September 16th at the Ukrainian Institute on the Upper East Side, right around the corner from the Met at 7:00 PM for a wine reception and live taping. So we're doing that to celebrate the book, to celebrate our community, to come together and have some much deserved time going out together before the big election day, which we're going to win because we have no choice for the sake of humanity.
(04:14):
Alright, so as I have been saying all year, I do believe, and I've been saying this since January, whether it's Biden and now it's Kamala, I do believe that Trump is going to be defeated in this election. Why? For reasons I've given many times on the show. Gaslit Nation has been super active in organizing phone banks and covering all of these elections, including most importantly, off year elections in 2023. We have defied the historical trends in these elections far exceeding the polls. Why is that? Well, the Democratic Party through its grassroots machine that really got going in the big blue wave of 2018, has built progressive infrastructure that's now expanding even into states like Kansas, yes, Kansas. And on top of that, you have a big backlash at the polls against the Supreme Court stripping away our rights, including of course, reproductive healthcare, where you have increasingly more white men, Republicans and white men independent voters who are waking up to that crisis and voting against Republicans many for the first time.
(05:30):
And then on top of that, you have Gen Z increasingly joining the voting force. And now we have a quality candidate who has created this organic grassroots celebrity culture. All of it from top to bottom, massive big blue wave of excitement that is absolutely unbeatable. And this momentum is real, it's authentic and it's growing and it can't be stopped unless you break the law. And that is very clearly from the opening quotes what Trump and the Heritage Foundation, the architects of 2025 plan to do because that is the only way they win. Trump became president the first time around by breaking the law. We saw that in the 400 page Mueller report. We saw that in the bipartisan intelligence report. We heard Robert Moeller himself under oath to Congress saying that once Trump leaves office, he can absolutely be indicted and he has many times and nothing has stopped him.
(06:33):
But here we are. I mean, obviously things should not be this way. We should have a Department of Justice that actually works. We should have anybody but Merrick Garland running the DOJ. We've had institutional rot and institutional complicity for many decades now, which have helped lay the groundwork for Trump. And if you want a big deep dive on that, I will link to some recent episodes in the show notes going as far back as how the Reagan revolution paved the way for Trump in this moment of crisis we currently find ourselves in. So now here we are. What do we do about it? I'm going to read a question from a listener that really sums things up that I want everyone to hear. This person writes, when Kevin Roberts talks about how they're winning in ways the other side doesn't know yet, it makes me immediately wonder, didn't Sidney Powell managed to confiscate a voting machine from Georgia after the 2020 election?
(07:32):
I know talk of election fraud has been tainted by the GOP as crying wolf, but I really worry how, I don't hear any talk of how election integrity might be compromised by her actions in 2020. Has anyone seen any chatter of this or is it too tinfoil hat to make the mainstream? No, absolutely not. In fact, there's a group of election security experts, two dozen of them who sent letters to federal agencies ringing the alarm over serious threats for the 2024 election, including stolen voting machine software by Sidney Powell and the rest of Trump's goon squad from Georgia in early 2021. So basically, Sidney Powell funded this whole operation. They were able to infiltrate Coffee County Georgia through Republican election officials just downloading everything they could and God knows what else they've done with it since then. They stole all this under the guise of needing to prove that Biden stole the election.
(08:38):
But really, as these election security experts point out in their damning letter, they now have all sorts of sensitive voting machine software and information that can now empower them to hack the election for Trump in 2024. So there you have it. So you're not alone in feeling and seeing this. In fact, there have been two major cyber attacks this year on critical voting infrastructure in Georgia alone, one in February in Fulton County where DA Fani Willis has brought her big sweeping case against Trump and several other MAGA supporters who tried to steal Georgia in the 2020 election, including harassing, intimidating, threatening election monitors and state officials. So Fulton County was targeted in a cyber attack who was behind that? The Russians. And then most recently in April, there was a report that Coffee County Georgia, which was the obsession of Sidney Powell and others, and the big lie fascist movement, coffee County Georgia, was targeted by cyber attacks and officials there were not very forthcoming with information on what happened.
(09:58):
There's a grassroots group called Citizens for Good Governance that is pushing them, including pushing their lawsuit to demand greater transparency and accountability there. I want to make clear that Fani Willis, the Fulton County DA in Georgia who busted Trump, Sidney Powell, a total of 18 or so conspirators on RICO charges in Georgia. Part of their whole conspiracy included copying, stealing, highly sensitive, highly classified voting machine software, which they then spread through their MAGA network. God knows where it ended up, which foreign adversaries have it now or how it's being used in states across the country now to hack these voting machines now that they know how they operate inside. And no one seems to be doing anything about this, that is the alarm that these two dozen or so election security experts have been ringing. So this is a very serious vulnerability in the 2024 election that no one seems to be doing much about.
(11:12):
This is a war zone, the whole operation, I just want to point this out for everyone. The whole operation that the Kremlin employed in 2016 to get Trump elected in the first place, including pumping out disinformation to drive out the authoritarian voter in a lot of these key states, Paul Manafort giving a sensitive polling data on key states that Trump needed to win the electoral college in 2016 to a known GRU agent, right? So the Kremlin could better target these counties where they needed to pump out disinformation as well as attack our voting systems, which they did in all 50 states. So all of the operations that the Kremlin used to bring Trump to power in 2016 has gone mainstream and is being used today by the Republican party to illegally bring Trump to power. If you want documentation on this, look to the show notes.
(12:15):
And one of the scariest threats we're dealing with this year is straight out of an episode of Black Mirror, and that is something called Eagle ai. It's being funded by a far right Christian nationalist group called Ziklag, a name that's out of the Old Testament, of course, because these Christian nationalist groups see Trump as living bible prophecy, he is a perfect God's imperfect vessel of bringing around a Christian Taliban for them. And so Ziklag is pumping millions of dollars into creating all sorts of misinformation, disinformation to suppress the vote. And on top of that, they've funded something called Eagle AI that's already operational. And what it does is it allows anyone to flag voter registration as being fraudulent for those stupidest most sensitive things. And this is already active in the state of Georgia where one activist group flagged tens of thousands of voter registrations and the election officials there shot down most of those claims, but that was time and energy they had to spend at a time when they should be on high alert for other threats, obviously, including cyber attacks that are already targeting the state of Georgia.
(13:33):
So all of this is to say that in 2024, we are a new terrain here with AI and the DOJ and the Department of Homeland Security needs to step up. So what can we as average citizens do to protect our election this year? Well, there's a number of things that we can do. Number one, check your voter registration and then a couple weeks out from the election, check it again, check it again. Number two, make sure all your friends and family around you have done the same thing. Number three, contact whoever represents you in your state capital. No matter what kind of state you live in, including a Republican hostage state, just put this in writing, put it in an email, put it in a letter, you drop in the mail, and ask your local rep to make a statement about how they plan to protect the integrity of the vote in your state where they live.
(14:22):
And ask them on your behalf as a constituent to contact the Department of Homeland Security and contact the Department of Justice to protect our elections from AI like Eagle AI that's actively working to suppress the vote and create chaos at the polls. And number four, contact the Department of Homeland Security and the DOJ yourself, you can tweet at them or you can post messages to them on social media to raise awareness around this issue so that other citizens follow suit. So the final thing, number five, share this episode with everyone because all of us have to be vigilant wherever you live in this country. If you see something, say something because the only way Trump can win is if he steals the election, and that is openly what they are trying to do. My dear friend, Terrell Starr of the Black Diplomats podcast and Substack joins me to discuss the latest in the US election and global affairs, including the Paris Olympics. To kick that off, here's fencer Olga Kharlan who won Ukraine's first medal this summer, a bronze in the women's saber, dedicating her win to Ukraine's heroes saying to all the athletes who could not come and be here because Russia killed them. I dedicate this to you.
(15:46):
Okay, so I want to share a personal story with you. As you know, my sister got the hell out of Dodge. She moved abroad, relocated with her family to Australia. They're living their best lives now. And for those who are just tuning in, my sister is Alexandra Chalupa, a long time independent consultant for the DNC who warned everybody and their mother, Democrats, Republicans, the media in 2016 that if a long time Kremlin operative Paul Manafort, who fucked up Ukraine on behalf of the Kremlin by getting Trumpian gold loving family, enriching victory, kovich president of Ukraine through culture wars and also nefarious means. And that guy is now running Trump's campaign for president for free. That means the Kremlin's running Trump's campaign. And she paid a high price for it, the Kremlin, the Republicans, Fox News, put a big old target on her head, harassed the hell out of her, put it under investigation for bullshit Banana Republic stuff.
(16:49):
And after a while she's like, you know what? I'm going to go take care of myself and my family. And she moved to Australia and is having the best life as she deserves to be. And she just went to Paris with her kids and she's there obviously during the Olympics, and they're sitting in a restaurant in Paris. And the restaurant was packed full of people from all over the world, and the restaurant was watching the Olympic opening ceremonies and all the different countries are coming down the Seine in their boats. And each different table was cheering when they saw their country come on screen. And my sister said that when Ukraine came down the Seine on their boat waving their Ukrainian flags, the entire restaurant united and cheered for Ukraine,
Terrell Starr (17:34):
Listen, Ukraine is a very easy cause to get behind. That's the first thing. And secondly, I'm so happy for your sister with all the drama that she had to endure of 2016 before and after. She is a lovely person. I have the opportunity to meet her in Washington, DC We had a long conversation and if you have met her, you won't forget her.
Andrea Chalupa (18:00):
Aw, that's so sweet of you to say. Alright my dear. So you just arrived to Warsaw and you're headed to Ukraine for several weeks. How are you feeling? What are you looking for while you're there?
Terrell Starr (18:12):
Well, I'm good. So I am here in Warsaw, going to hang out for a few days and meet some people and then go into Ukraine to record three or four videos about civilian life during the war. I already have about eight or so videos and post-production that are going to publish once per week starting on August the seventh. In fact, you saw one of them, right?
Andrea Chalupa (18:36):
Oh my God, the video you showed me. So Terrell, when he is over for dinner Sunday night and I was cooking, I had to stop cooking and watch in full this extraordinary video interview that he did with a young Ukrainian woman, a mother who was in Mariupol when the Russians just scorched earthed it to the ground. And she described what that was like, and my husband and I both had tears in our eyes watching it. It was one of the most compelling interviews I've ever seen in my life. The horror that she was going through with a baby needing breast milk from her in her arms and having to think about both of their survival and how at one point she was even thinking about suicide as a way out during the seige of Mariupol. It was extraordinary. That interview you did?
Terrell Starr (19:22):
Yeah. So the shorter version is going to come out August 7th, and then the long form version that you saw is going to publish October 10th. So my producer was so moved by it that he cut down the shorter one to take the most impactful moments and introduced to the viewer. And he said that it was just almost traumatic because that interview that you saw, that was 20 minutes, it was actually an hour. And so my producer distilled it into two videos, one about eight minutes, and the other one is about 20. And so yeah, I do those types of stories because I think that there's so many tales about what happened that still are not really told to western audiences. And I just have a passion of going back and staying for six weeks at a time and even longer, three months, four months, just to talk with people and document their stories.
(20:20):
And it's really my intro into documentary filmmaking. And they're all going to black diplomats YouTube channel. And so some of the sneak peek videos that you all are going to see, they include some Ukrainians that took over territory that was rented by the Russian Embassy. They just said, fuck it, you invaded us. And it was just their form of a counter invasion, so to speak. So they just took over rented embassy space and I spent half a day talking with them and then this married couple who brings food to elderly people. And I do those types of stories and I have others, but I do those type of stories because I want to show people what it's like if you're an older person and you don't have anyone taking care of you. Plus the economy is stressed because everything is going to the war efforts. And so what is it like for a story about a Ukrainian bodybuilder who became a European champion all while her mother is living under occupation and one of her brothers was killed by the Russians after he joined the armed forces? And so there are these personal stories that I enjoy telling. And so basically I really very much look forward to keeping Ukraine in front of everyone so that they won't forget.
Andrea Chalupa (21:54):
Absolutely. And thank you so much for doing that. Here in the US we're having all of these white men for Kamala sprouting up white women for Kamala, all these groups that are sprouting up white men for Kamala raised, I think $2 million had over 150,000 people on the call. Many celebrities, mark Hamill and just a lot of amazing folks were on this call. And I got approached by somebody that wants to organize a Ukrainians or Ukrainian American supporters for Kamala Harris. And I thought that was really interesting. So they wanted to have a call of Ukraine minded folks to come together and to raise awareness of how she's the candidate for Ukraine and all the reasons why. And I said, okay, I think that's a great idea. I'm happy to amplify it, but just be aware, there's a lot of scams out there now that Kamala is raising war chest.
(22:51):
You have these fake packs that are sprouting up in this age of fraud that we're living in. And the person said, no worries. We're actually going to raise money for Ukraine through this Zoom call because Kamala has her award chest already, and we're really doing it to unite the Ukraine supporters around her campaign and get people activated to make sure that she gets elected as a national security president. And I thought that was really interesting and I wanted to get your thoughts. Do you think something like that would backfire if all these Zoom calls for Kamala are raising money for Kamala, do you think it would backfire if the Ukraine call sprouted up and they're raising money for Ukraine?
Terrell Starr (23:30):
No, because people who would see something like that would gravitate towards it. And if they can give, I don't know, $10, $50, a hundred dollars to Ukraine, these are some of the people who will give that amount of money or something similar to Kamala. And so it doesn't mean that you're splitting resources, especially for somebody that's as well financed as the vp. And we also know that Ukraine needs money. It actually is really smart because the purpose of the call, based on what it sounds like, is to discuss her foreign policy chops and it will give people like us an opportunity to bring up some of her best features. And so all this is doing is demonstrating her capacity to be a foreign policy leader on one of the most pressing topics in our world. So of course, sending money to Ukraine in that regard makes total sense because it doesn't negate giving money to the vp.
Andrea Chalupa (24:32):
I love that. So if they organize it, I'll let you know the date, and if you're around, come on in and we'll just have a zoom fest for Kamala.
Terrell Starr (24:39):
I would be excited about that because I'm still working on my piece about how kamala's presidency would be really, really effective for Ukraine in many ways, much more effective than Joe Biden's.
Andrea Chalupa (24:54):
I think so too. I'm very much feeling that the prosecutor in her coming through and Biden cling to the status quo on Israel. Israel is becoming increasingly lawless. You have the Knesset debating over sexual assault of Palestinian prisoners by the IDF. You have the Knesset and Israel debating whether the IDF raped Palestinian soldiers. And at the same time, you have government offices, military bases being overrun by these far right Israelis who think that's all justified, and they want to free the IDF soldiers who are accused of raping Palestinians. And just that level of lawlessness that has taken off in Israel under Netanyahu, empowering all these terrorists around him as he clings to power and is trying to promise us a forever war. The status quo has allowed this to happen. And Biden cleaning the status quo not only put him in risk of losing the election, but it further endangered Israel's own democracy.
(26:01):
Keep in mind, long before October 7th, the largest protest in Israel's history against Netanyahu were going on against his corruption and against his court purging. And so I hope to God Kamala Harris comes in and all of these black supporters who are the ones who are responsible for getting her this nomination, because as soon as Biden said, it's Kamala, it was the black grassroots groups that said, yes it is. And they're the ones that created that miraculous momentum that changed the world overnight. And so those supporters aren't going to let her get away with status quo in Israel. Latasha Brown, a black voters matter, was posting some really graphic footage of decapitated babies, Palestinian babies. So Kamala is going to be held to a higher standard on Israel and Palestine when she hopefully becomes president.
Terrell Starr (26:52):
I think so too. And I don't think that she's as devoted to this current iteration of the Benjamin Netanyahu Israeli project as Biden is, and she has an opportunity to break in. She doesn't have a lot to lose really, if you think about it. But I think that the status quo approach towards Israel, this will be the last term where anyone can do that, because I think that Kamala Harris, she's intelligent enough to understand that holding on to power is not going to be easy or viable by clinging on to this abusive Israeli state. And your listeners know that I've been to the West Bank, you talk about it's nearing lawlessness. It is lawless. It's been lawless for years, and there's just an air of arrogance of these Israeli settlers. Many of them come from Brooklyn, and they go there, kick Palestinians out of their homes, they run it and walk around with automatic rifles with training provided by the IDF.
(28:09):
And I look at these people and it looks as if all of the racist stuff that they wanted to do in the United States, they do it over there, but they're just doing it the Arabs or whereas over here, it'd be a wide range of people that they can discriminate against. It's the most disgusting environment that I've ever been in. And with Gaza, it is just emboldened them. But she needs the youth vote. She needs everything that she can get, and they're going to let her hear about it. So I'm happy that people are galvanizing support around the vp. However, as soon as she clings on to victory, people weren't getting their ass butted. And rightfully so, there's an opportunity for her, right? As black people, we have raised the alarms in trying to get white America to care about anti-blackness. And I think that is our equal responsibility to not ignore abuses against other people.
(29:07):
Because what's happening with the Palestinians is that this current Israeli state propaganda machine is pretty much conflating every critique against their actions as antisemitism evoking the Holocaust. So this is manipulation that is finest. And I think one of the major shocks that you're getting from their side is that they realize it's not working anymore because you can call someone an antisemite or you can attack their livelihood, people would back off. But you see this fight is ongoing and they're saying, oh my God, what do we do? So they don't have anything in the can. And so what they do is just dig into their arrogance. They dig into their abuse because they say you're not going to do anything about it. And so this is also a moral test for political black organizing and power. And so when you see people like LaTosha Brown posting those images, it's not the only thing because those are the people who are going to be responsible for getting her the presidency. So you bring up Latasha, but we bring her up a lot and she's agreed to come on in August, by the way. So y'all are going to hear me and Andrea talk to Latasha Brown because this is the person who knows how to flip a voter. She flips people from not voting to voting. I've seen her in action, and she organizes with thousands of other people around the country to who are responsible for flipping Georgia, Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan. In 2018, her organizing helped to get the senator who was in Alabama.
Andrea Chalupa (30:52):
Oh, Doug Jones in Alabama.
Terrell Starr (30:53):
Yeah. Yeah. You remember he was running against that pedophile.
Andrea Chalupa (30:57):
Which one? But yeah,
Terrell Starr (30:59):
Well, the judge who, yeah, but basically these organizers, part of their success in 2020 was getting the every American vote, and now their vote is more consequential than ever. I think that this is a healthy thing because I think that it's great that you see all this energy, particularly the white men for Kamala. I have a gut feeling, and of course we all could be wrong because money doesn't necessarily equal electoral votes, but this is unprecedented. I don't think that we have the right data or history of data in place to understand what's going to happen. All we see is this incredible energy and I, we both could get together and brainstorm about what it is, but there are going to be new variables that are going to set up a precedent for future elections that we are not seeing come to fruition until the election.
(32:04):
But part of that is going to be embedded in that is going to be a political calculus that's going to center these people of color and is going to center Palestinians. And so it's a great opportunity for black political power to exert itself not only by our own votes, but also who we care for and who we stand with. And that is going to be directly communicated to who I want to call madam President Kamala Harris. And it's going to be good for her. So I see nothing but great possibilities, but I'm just sad that the Palestinian people are going to suffer until that power shift happens.
Andrea Chalupa (32:48):
I want to be clear to all the Israeli listeners because I do get messages from Israel and all of these Israel supporters. Wherever you are in the world, Terrell and I have been very morally consistent. We want a two-state solution. We want dignity for both sides. We want safety for the children of both sides. We want the hostages to finally be returned home to their families. We want Hamas leadership to stop oppressing the Palestinian people and terrorizing Israeli people. And we want Netanyahu and his gang of criminals who've been indicted, okay? Some of them have to serve time in prison for their terrorism. We want them out of power yesterday. And so I think our position is very common sense. There should be nothing controversial about anything that we just said. And we want the people who have been impacted by this conflict for generations who carry the trauma in your DNA. We want you to have rest. We want you to have healing. We want you to be at peace, and we want an end to the generational trauma and violence. It needs to end in our lifetime in the coming years. It needs to end because too many, many transnational criminals leverage this war for their own gang, for their own gain. Russia backs both sides for a reason, because this conflict divides its enemies in the Democratic alliance. So that's just a classic cynical ploy by Russia is divide and conquer.
Terrell Starr (34:21):
It is. You're absolutely right about this. And moreover, we live in New York where ancestors, antisemitism have been an issue in our borough. In fact, we always talk about the anti-Semitic rise in attacks here in the United States that just skyrocketed under President Donald Trump. And even across Europe with the far right extremists that are pursuing power, that are gaining power, we could look no further than the last European parliamentary elections. And so I think the main thing that we're thinking from our perspective is that there seems to be this very xenophobic targeting of Palestinians, and we are very aware of the harm and the violence as directed towards Jewish people. That is a real thing. And it's ongoing. And you're not going to find many podcasts that comfortably and with such conviction that will talk about it as consistently us. And one of my values when I talk about Ukraine and when I talk about Palestine, is that we all have to be invested in each safety and security.
(35:38):
If one group of us is safe, whether that be Palestinians, whether that be Ukrainians, black people, Asians, Jews, anywhere, none of us are safe. And so we have to become educated. We have to become grounded in the moral conviction of each other's lived existences and survival. And that requires, in some instances, some uncomfortable conversations about ourselves as far as what we've been taught. When I talk to people about Ukraine, they always ask me, it's the elephant in the room, but I come out and I just talk about it. They're just fascinated that I, as a black person, go over to Ukraine and they're saying, what are you doing with all these white people? And it's honestly a fair question. And so I start off by saying that one, it's a calling to me, and I feel like I'm supposed to be there. And so I go and I am, and whatever resources I need, I go.
(36:33):
But there's also a good ground to really talk about what it means to study a group of people. You go in with your own assumptions. I grew up in the inner city of Detroit. I thought that, Hey, if you look white, you are white, you have all the privileges of whiteness. But when you go over to Ukraine and you understand the Russian supremacist ecosystem and political structures that they have there, Ukrainians don't neatly fit into those definitions that I thought that people who look white do. So I had to educate myself about what it means for different groups of people like Ukrainians, when they face harm, what does safety look like for them? Their skin complexion does not make them safe. And so the human experience is a very complex thing. And I had to go through those emotional tremors of growth in saying, damn, you know what?
(37:28):
The way I thought about this group of people was wrong. And I, since my early twenties when I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Georgia, have been going on this quest to educate myself about how I could be better to my fellow human being. And all of us, if we really care about peace, we ask ourselves that What does it mean to care about your fellow human? And that means some growth. And it's okay. People are afraid of looking at themselves in the mirror and saying, you know what? I could be wrong about this. And we need to create space for all of us to work through what we have been taught and to leave open the possibility to what we have been taught about ourselves was wrong. I was recently, I read a thread by an Israeli citizen on Twitter earlier today. And essentially what he was saying was that all of my life I've been taught that everyone is out to get Israel.
(38:32):
And embedded in that thread was a very real fear, a historical fear, and a contemporary fear of being attacked because he's Jewish. That is real. What he was speaking to was that that history of violence and that present violence that could be targeted towards him has been manipulated for him to use the trauma that he has felt, and indirectly just as a regular citizen, to be indifferent to the trauma of others. And so that was his story. And we always have to ask ourselves, what does it benefit for us to treat these Palestinians in the way that they've been treated? And it doesn't need to negate the violence, the butchery, the savagery that Hamas committed on October 7th. It doesn't have to negate that at all. Nor do we have to ignore the violence that has been taking place against Palestinians before October 7th. And so as opposed to this being a competition, we really need to do an intensive exercise in harm reduction.
(39:46):
And that starts with our own hearts. And I think with Gaslight Nation, this is something that when I'm always on the show, me and Andrea, we talk through this. We talk about our growth, we want to share with you, and this is a safe space where we can learn and communicate with each other about how we can be better to one another. This is where the conversation starts when we talk about politics and we talk about Ukraine, this platform, you have a Ukrainian American. We started off with the digital, my God, 2014. There is something I just noticed. It's been 10 years.
Andrea Chalupa (40:22):
You and I have been together for 10 years,
Terrell Starr (40:23):
Man, right? For 10 years. But here's the thing. It cost me nothing to be invested in the liberation and the safety and security of Andreas people as a Ukrainian American. It cost me nothing to learn and to grow upon what I already knew. It cost her nothing to understand me. I think that we are meant to live in this world together. And I think the biggest fear that a lot of these people who are manipulating hate and manipulating our historical traumas is that they realize that once we come together as human beings, then this small minority of hatemongers who are profiting off of our pain and off of our hurt, once they realize they can no longer puppeteer our fear and anxiety, they're going to be put out of business. Because all they have is hate. All they have is the ability to manipulate our anxieties. And once we come together, they will not have a job. And that's what I think what we've been doing on Gaslight Nation together, is that we have come together with love in our hearts, critical thinking, and with the goal of putting these people out of business, that's what we're doing. We are putting hate. We're putting these people who are perpetrating emotional and physical violence out of business. They're going to become obsolete.
Andrea Chalupa (42:04):
And with that, here's Vice President Kamala Harris in an interview with Jemele Hill.
Jemele Hill (42:09):
You really get, and people. So with that being said, do you think Donald Trump is afraid to debate you?
Kamala Harris (42:15):
He should be.
Andrea Chalupa (42:23):
Our discussion continues, and you can get access to that by citing up at the Truth Teller Level and Higher on Patreon at patreon.com/gaslit. Fascists like JD Vance hate women and don't understand how a woman's body works. So donate to the Women's Reproductive Rights Assistance Project that provides support to those who need an abortion or emergency contraceptives because abortion is healthcare. donate@wap.org. That's w a.org. To help Ukraine with urgently needed humanitarian aid. Join me in donating to ROSO for ukraine@rosoforukraine.org to help refugees in conflict zones donate to Doctors Without borders@doctorswithoutborders.org. And if you want to help critically endangered orangutans already under pressure from the palm oil industry, donate to The Orangutan project@theorangutanproject.org. T Nation is produced by Andrea Chalupa. Our production manager is Nicholas Torres and our associate producers Karlyn Daigle. If you like what we do, leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us reach more listeners and check out our Patreon.
(43:30):
It keeps us going. Original music and Gaslit Nation is produced by David Whitehead, Martin Bien, Nick Farr, Damien Ariaga, and Karlyn Daigle. Our logo design was donated to us by Hamish Smyth of the New York based Firm order. Thank you so much. Hamish Gaslit Nation would like to thank our supporters at the producer level on Patreon and Higher: Icebear is Defiant; WorkForBetterPrepForTrouble; Lilly Wachowski; John Schoenthaler; Ellen McGirt; Larry Gassan; D Scott; Ann Bertino; David East; Joseph Mara Jr.; Mark Mark; Sean Berg; Kristin Kuster; Kevin Gannon; Sandra Kalnins; Katie Moussouris; JAMES D LEONARD; Leo Chalupa; Carol Gullstad; Marcus J. Trent; Joe Darcy; Anne Marshall; DL Singfield; Nicole Speer; Abbie Rhoad; Jens Eilstrup Rasmussen; Sarah Gray; Diana Gallaher; Leah Campbell; Jarrod Lombardo (he-him); Anne Marshall; Abby Zavos; Tanya Chalupa. Thank you all for your support of the show. We could not make Gaslit Nation without you.