Reform the Electoral College
The two most dangerous presidents in American history lost the popular vote but won the slave state monument, the Electoral College: war criminal George W. Bush and Russian asset Donald Trump. Luckily it's within reach to reform the Electoral College, protecting democracy and the world.
Alyssa Cass of the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, a bipartisan movement to pass legislation in enough states across the country to ensure that the president is elected by the popular vote, joins Gaslit Nation to explain how to reform the Electoral College. Seventeen states and Washington, DC, with 209 electoral votes total, have already enacted the legislation. This means 61 electoral votes are needed in order for the popular vote–the will of the people–not the outdated and dangerous Electoral College, which gives way too much power to a handful of swing states, determines our elections. To be a part of the movement to reform the Electoral College, check the status of the legislation in your state and get involved: https://www.nationalpopularvote.com/state-status
This week’s bonus episode, exclusive to supporters at the Truth-teller ($5/month) level and higher, features Russian mafia expert Olga Lautman and European analyst Monique Camarra of the Kremlin File podcast on the making of Vladimir Putin. Listeners at the Democracy Defender ($10/month) level and higher join the conversation on Gaslit Nation’s coverage of Israel and Palestine. Thank you so much for all your comments! We always enjoy hearing from you!
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Here are some of the exciting events we have coming up for our Patreon community at the Truth-teller tier and higher that make Gaslit Nation possible:
Investigative Journalist Craig Unger Live-Taping - June 25th 12pm ET:
June 25th is George Orwell’s birthday! Come celebrate with us at a live taping of Gaslit Nation, featuring another fearless journalist, Craig Unger, the author of several bestselling books: House of Trump, House of Putin; House of Bush, House of Saud; and American Kompromat: How the KGB Cultivated Donald Trump, and Related Tales of Sex, Greed, Power, and Treachery (which features his reporting on Jeffrey Epstein's pedophile global crime syndicate). Joining the live-taping will be Russian mafia expert Olga Lautman and European analyst Monique Camarra of Kremlin File. Drop your questions in the chat! Be sure to subscribe at Patreon.com/Gaslit at the Truth-teller tier ($5/month) or higher to get your ticket. A zoom link will be sent out the morning of the event. Thank you to everyone who supports the show!
Cult Expert Dr. Janja Lalich Live-Taping - July 15 8pm ET
July 15th kicks off the Republican National Convention/Hitler rally in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. To help us cope with the mainstream media, especially the New York Times, continuing to normalize Trump and his MAGA cult, we’re producing a live taping with cult expert Dr. Janja Lalich. Bring your questions about how to navitage this perilous time of rampant disinformation and manipulation, learn the signs of cult grooming, and how to help loved ones who have fallen victim. This will be Dr. Lalich’s second time on the show. You can listen to the interview with her from April 2022 here.
In the Shadow of Stalin Book Launch - September
Gaslit Nation will host a live taping at a book launch in New York City for In the Shadow of Stalin, the graphic novel adaptation of Mr. Jones. It includes scenes that didn’t make it into the final cut of the film, or it would have been three hours long! The evening will include a special meet-up just for Patreon supporters. We look forward to sharing more details as we get closer. If you want a book event/live taping of Gaslit Nation in your town or city, let us know!
Indivisible x Gaslit Nation Phonebank Party! - June 20th 8pm ET
Open to all, Gaslit Nation and Indivisible are kicking things off early this year, really early! When there’s such a thing as Project 2025, there’s no time to waste. Come join us for our first phone bank party of the season, as we make calls to our fellow citizens in Republican hostage states, to refuse to abandon those on the frontlines of American authoritarianism, and to plant seeds of change. We’re going in!
RSVP here to join us! https://www.mobilize.us/indivisible/event/628701/
Show Notes:
Pre-Order In the Shadow of Stalin: The Story of Mr. Jones, out this September!
The song you heard at the top of the show was 'The Fuel' by Jerrika Mighelle. You can find more music by Jerrika Mighelle on all streaming platforms or at jerrikamighelle.com. And be sure to check out the beautiful official video for 'The Fuel' on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXK32cYuOWs
Post-9/11 wars have contributed to some 4.5 million deaths, report suggests
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/05/15/war-on-terror-911-deaths-afghanistan-iraq/
Surveillance and interference: Israel’s covert war on the ICC exposed Top Israeli government and security officials have overseen a nine-year surveillance operation targeting the ICC and Palestinian rights groups to try to thwart a war crimes probe, a joint investigation reveals.
https://www.972mag.com/icc-israel-surveillance-investigation/
Spying, hacking and intimidation: Israel’s nine-year ‘war’ on the ICC exposed
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/28/spying-hacking-intimidation-israel-war-icc-exposed
Fareed Zakaria: Is Israel committing humanitarian crimes in Gaza? The Israeli gov’t strenuously denies it. Aryeh Neier, a giant in the world of human rights who escaped Nazi Germany and later cofounder Human Rights Watch, says the answer is yes. Our conversation from today’s GPS: https://x.com/FareedZakaria/status/1794793567543509201
Thomas Piketty’s Radical Plan to Redistribute Wealth
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/19/books/review/a-brief-history-of-equality-thomas-piketty.html
Why the Voting Rights Act Is Once Again Under Threat
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/opinion/why-the-voting-rights-act-is-once-again-under-threat.html
William Barr, nation's top lawyer, is a culture warrior Catholic
https://www.ncronline.org/news/william-barr-nations-top-lawyer-culture-warrior-catholic
Bill Barr, frequent Trump critic, says he will support the ‘Republican ticket’ in November
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/18/politics/bill-barr-donald-trump-vote/index.html
“I started Occupy Wall Street. Russia tried to co-opt me”
What will Trump jury decide? Here are the three options
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c033m2qdm0no
Andrea Chalupa:
Welcome to Gaslit Nation, a show about corruption in America and rising autocracy worldwide. I am your host, Andrea Chalupa, a journalist and filmmaker and the writer and producer of the journalistic thriller Mr. Jones. About Stalin's genocide famine in Ukraine, which is now a graphic novel coming out in September with Oni Press and includes deleted scenes from the film. You can pre-order the book now to celebrate the launch of the Mr. Jones graphic novel called In the Shadow of Stalin, a book that took me one million years to get to you. I'm going to be giving away one signed copy every month for a year, starting now in May to our Gaslit Nation subscribers at the Democracy Defender tier or higher who make our show possible, who keep our production team running. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. You are our fuel. This month we're giving a signed copy to Deborah, last initials N.K., that's Deborah last initials N.K.
On behalf of our production team here at Gaslit Nation, thank you Deborah N.K. and all who subscribe. If you want to be in the running to receive a signed copy of In the Shadow of Stalin, the graphic novel adaptation of my Mr. Jones film that includes deleted scenes, be sure to subscribe at the Democracy Defender tier or higher on patreon.com/gaslit. That's patreon.com/gaslit. The song you heard at the top of the show was The Fuel by Jerrika Mighelle acclaimed Americana singer-songwriter Jerrika Mighelle, she/they known for her rootsy heartstring tunes is a proud non-binary queer artist who was released three studio albums from the heartland of West Central Wisconsin. Jerrika writes soul-searching songs that stir wonder and hope, aiming to connect the listener to their own heart. They have shared the stage with amazing artists, including Dead Horses, Them Coulee Boys and LeAnn Rimes.
Yes, that LeAnn Rimes, their latest record Be Brave was released in July of 2023 and is streaming everywhere. Jerrika is also currently working on their masters of human rights degree at the University of Minnesota, Humphrey School of Public Affairs. And is in the midst of working on their fourth album. Jerrika provided this statement about the song. "This song is about not letting fear stop you from doing what is hard in life, like fighting for humanity, for justice, or following your biggest dreams. It is saying fear will most likely always be there, but when you see it, instead of letting it be the tool that stops you, let it be the fuel that carries you." We'll post a link to The Fuel on our social media feeds and in the show notes for this episode on our Patreon page, you can find more music by Jerrika on all streaming platforms or at jerikamighelle.com, and be sure to check out the beautiful official video for The Fuel on YouTube.
Thanks for sharing your work with us, Jerrika. All right, everyone. Hope our American listeners had a good Memorial Day weekend. For the rest of you, I hope you had a beautiful weekend wherever you are in the world listening. I always enjoy getting emails, messages from our listeners from around the world. Thank you so much. Thank you to all who serve our country, and I was thinking of all of you this Memorial Day weekend, especially our veterans sharing their expertise to help Ukraine in their fight for freedom. Thank you. Thank you all so much. I've met some of you over the years. I'm so grateful for you. I spent this long weekend listening to the book, Equality by renowned French economist Thomas Piketty. Highly recommend it. In Equality, Piketty makes the case for reparations for colonial imperialism, crediting the world's first and only successful slave revolt in Haiti for taking down the transatlantic slave trade.
It is a must read. It'll set your hair on fire. There's so much I want to say about this book. I know in this age of oligarchy eroding our democracy, all of the Wall Street giants lining up to get Trump elected. That is what a mental illness greed is, and they just want to live above accountability. They want to hurt us all. They want to divide and conquer, they want to weaken us. They want to have our health insurance bankrupt us and so on. Because just as Piketty shows in his book, it's imperialist, divide and conquer, they would weaken the local population. Look at the Opium Wars for example against China and that would allow them to come in and rule and plunder and enrich themselves. And create generations of inherited wealth that would repeat these imperialist patterns of abuse, literally enslaving people for generations.
And now we are living with and facing a new era of this slavery because they're making it harder to hold down jobs. You have to juggle many jobs just to make your rent in the faraway hope of buying your own home someday and being overworked makes nearly impossible to start a family. When you do have a family, how can you get to see them when you're working all the time? So if you'll want to have the whole historical long view of how we got to this moment in time and how the historic levels of income inequality are breeding ground for authoritarianism, definitely listen to Equality. I like to listen to my books. I walk, I get my nature therapy in while I'm being filled with this horrifying knowledge. But I highly recommend however you devour your books, Thomas Piketty's Equality. That very much puts steel in my spine and replenished me for this fight ahead for all of us including my children because I don't want them to deal with this anymore.
So what also stood out to me in Piketty's research is he just came out and say, he is like, "There's no other group that's more repressed disadvantaged than women. Across cultures, across nations, women remain the most economically disadvantaged group." So this is a reminder to all of us. The fascist war of greed we're up against is a war on women. The strongest, most economically resilient democracies with the lowest levels of corruption and highest levels of happiness have strong, legally protected and enforced rights for women. The war of fascism is a war on women. Income inequality is a war on women. More on this in future episodes, as this important discussion continues, we have an upcoming show looking at all the ways the US is now an oligarchy, what must be done about this before it's too late. The guest on that show does not agree with me.
He is a famous financial writer, so you'll hear that whole blistering debate soon. I look forward to that. I've been studying up and I'm ready. All right, switching gears somewhat. There's a must read damning report that I'll link to in the show notes of this week's episode on a new filing in a lawsuit brought by the families of 9/11 victims. Documenting how Saudi Arabia was responsible for carrying out the 9/11 terrorist attacks, which was obvious to everyone, has been. But not US policy by every administration since 9/11 with its deeply flawed and dangerous war on terror waged across Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Syria, Libya, Somalia and Yemen. I am mentioning this, I do not want it to get lost in our horrific grim news cycle, the so-called war on terror by the US has killed according to a recent report out of Brown University, which I'll link to in the show notes. Around 4.5 million people with the majority around 3.6 million killed as indirect deaths.
If you want a deep dive on that research, go to the show notes. All of this makes clear Jamal Khashoggi was far from the first casualty of the US selling out to Saudi Arabia. How could the Saudis get away with 9/11 for so long? We're going to ask our upcoming guest in the special live taping of Gaslit Nation on June 25th at 12 PM Eastern. That's Craig Unger, the author of several damning best-selling books including House of Bush, House of Saud, showing how Saudi Arabia bought off Republicans and trenching their interests to divide the US from within. And his follow-up bombshell, House of Trump, House of Putin, how the Russians learned from the Saudis to bring Trump to power. And his most dangerous book, American Kompromat exposing the Kremlin's decades-long plan, developing Trump into an asset. And how Epstein's transnational pedophile operation played a role. That live taping is exclusive to our Patreon community that keeps our show going, supporting our production team.
You can get your ticket to the Gaslit Nation live taping on June 25th George Orwell's birthday by supporting the show at the Truth-teller tier or hire on patreon.com/gaslit. A Zoom link will be sent out the morning of the event. Thank you so much to everyone who makes Gaslit Nation possible. We cannot make this show without you. Many of our guests in recent years have pointed to the far right in America, building a decades-long plan to turn our democracy into a Christian nationalist dictatorship. In white rage reaction to the landmark Civil Rights Act of 1964, they're close to succeeding, including with Chief Justice John Roberts coming from Reagan's DOJ where he led the attack on voting rights under Reagan. Now gutting, having gutted the Voting Rights Act as chief justice of the Supreme Court, the mullah court, the extreme supremes with Justice Alito flying the Trump flag, not in just one but two houses now.
We're finding out about two houses and we're finding out that the Washington Post in true Washington Post fashion sat on this story and did not report it. Why? Because mainstream media in America is beholden to our ruling oligarchs, our ruling power structures. They practice access journalism, they'll protect their access to power at the expense of our democracy. Doesn't mean that there's no excellent reporters, quality, credible, trustworthy reporters at these newspapers, but the power structures remain intact. And it's all going hand in hand with hedge funds, with Silicon Valley, the Wall Street of the West, chipping away at newsrooms, destroying the news. Making 2023 the worst year for media layoffs since the economic crash of 2008. And that's a crisis for democracy with these newsrooms shrinking across America and so many excellent reporters out of a job push out of this industry when we desperately need more watchdogs and anti-corruption journalists. You really cannot feed your kids getting $200 for an article that takes you weeks of reporting an investigation.
So what are people doing? They're being pushed into corporate America. They're being pushed into PR, they're being pushed into whatever they can scramble together to make their mortgage. And as a result, our democracy is paying the price for that. So when you have Washington Post funded by an oligarch, owned by an oligarch that is killing stories like this and holding up stories on one of the justices on Supreme Court proudly showing a Trump flag while ruling on cases involving Trump, including his violent attempt at overthrow of a democracy. I mean this is what the Washington Post has done for years. I mean they did this to my sister back in 2016, Alexandra Chalupa, who's an independent contractor working for the DNC who warned both parties, Democrats and Republicans. That if Paul Manafort was here running Trump's campaign, that meant the Kremlin was here running Trump's campaign.
And she's since been vindicated by the Mueller report, by the Senate Intelligence report, which is bipartisan, which she testified for, for countless hours in a skiff. And WaPo did a big article on her back in 2016, sent a photographer to her house and they still killed the story. They killed the story and that would've ran in 2016 days before that election. So you want to talk about Trump and his hush money case and an election interference case. Our mainstream media engages in election interference too by holding my sister's story because likely somebody in James Comey's FBI told WaPo to kill it. And so they did, and that story never ran. That is what we're up against. Thank you to everyone who supports independent journalism, especially in these very, very, very tough times. I want to touch really quickly on the Trump trial. It's something that I've largely ignored here at Gaslit Nation for obvious reasons.
Cable news has not. I have a friend covering the trial having to sit in that [inaudible 00:13:47] courtroom. Why? Because she works for a major cable network and it is a rating's bonanza for them. As one Gaslit Nation listener wrote to me, it's more like accountability theater. Yes, that's true because we know that whatever the verdict is in this trial, nothing's going to stop him. It comes down to us. We're the ones who are going to stop him because we have no choice but to do that yet again, pull another rabbit over our damn hat. Because our institutions, yes, are failing us because they've been crumbling for some time because they've been under attack for decades. You've heard about that from recent guests. Anne Nelson on Project 2025, Ari Berman on Minority Rule, how our democracy was set up this way intentionally to protect the white slave-owning class and so on and so on it goes.
And even Frank Zappa, the rock star knew all this and tried to ring the alarm on it. I'm going to play this incredible clip back on CNN's Crossfire in 1986 of Frank Zappa talking to a bunch of creepy old white men who looked like the Bobs in the Mike Judge film Office Space. Apologies for the quality of the recording, which is really old by internet standards.
Frank Zappa:
The biggest threat to America today is not communism, it's moving America toward a fascist theocracy. And everything that's happened during the Reagan administration is steering us right down that pipe.
Speaker 3:
Oh, Mr. Zappa, do you-
Frank Zappa:
Yes, Mr. Zappa-
Speaker 3:
Do you really think... I mean, all kidding aside, in this country with the progressiveness that we are moving toward a fascist theocracy-
Frank Zappa:
You know we are-
Speaker 3:
... you think things like this [inaudible 00:15:18] permitted-
Frank Zappa:
Give me that [inaudible 00:15:18] smile again.
Speaker 3:
... when we were kids... You're about my age, maybe lower-
Frank Zappa:
I'm forty-five.
Speaker 3:
Well I'm fifty-five. Do you think when I was a kid that they would permit songs like that to be sold? Permissiveness is the game. You're not really serious if you're saying we're going toward a fascist theocracy.
Frank Zappa:
That's right. We are.
Speaker 4:
Wait a minute-
Speaker 3:
In what way? Give me one example-
Speaker 4:
Wait. Wait. One example. One example of a fascist theocracy.
Frank Zappa:
When you have a government that prefers a certain moral code derived from a certain religion and that moral code turns into legislation to suit one certain religious point of view, and if that code happens to be very, very right-wing almost toward the till of the Hun-
Speaker 5:
Well then you are an anarchist. Every form of civil government is based on some kind of morality, Frank?
Frank Zappa:
Morality in terms of behavior, not in terms of theology.
Andrea Chalupa:
So that theocracy, that Christian nationalist movement brought to power by the Reagan revolution, which we're still trapped under today, includes authoritarian Catholic, Bill Barr who was raised on the upper west side of Manhattan among heathen liberals, including many Jews. Barr has claimed that quote, "Militant secularism is the greatest threat to America." Here is Barr comfortably endorsing Donald Trump on Fox News and calling Biden a threat to democracy.
Bill Barr:
I'm not happy with the choice. I think this is a terrible choice for the country, but it is a choice. At the end of the day, we have to select between two different individuals. And I've said all along that I think it's my duty to pick the person I think, will do the least harm to the country. And I think that to me that's clearly Trump and the Republican administration, which I think is important. I think getting control over the border, stopping the lawlessness in our cities, building up the strength of the United States in an ever more dangerous world. Stop the avalanche of regulation that is strangling business and our technological superiority. These are critical things that have to be done, and I think that we'll get them done under a Trump administration. At the same time, I think the Biden administration is in fact the greater threat to democracy. I think they have a totalitarian temper. They have bought into the progressive movement and they're trying to squelch opposition and freedom of speech.
Andrea Chalupa:
You may be asking yourself, but didn't Barr criticize Trump for years? Yes, because he knows he has Trump in his pocket. Trump needs lawfare generals like Bill Barr to win. Barr is the cleanup guy of the Republican Party. He covered up Iran-Contra, which was a test-run scandal that was sort of like pave the way for Russiagate under Trump. He then covered up Russiagate, remember the four-page Bill Barr memo that went out that so many newspapers, so much of the mainstream media fell for running on the front pages. Mueller exonerates Trump when that wasn't true and Gaslit Nation had to redouble our efforts at the time to be like, "This is not true. Mueller did not exonerate Trump. And Bill Barr is the cover-up king and we're still at it." And because all of that's being memory-holed. So obviously Trump will have no choice but to welcome Barr back with open arms and whatever Barr has said about him publicly, it's all water under the bridge. Because what Trump cares about most is power and escaping accountability and Barr is his ticket to that.
Everything Barr represents is his ticket to that. Like Reagan, Trump's power depends on Christian nationalists like Barr. Barr is a general in the legal warfare of Christian nationalism. They need slick polished talking heads like Barr to further the normalization of Trump and Christian nationalism's takeover of our democracy playing out now on cable news. Back in power, they're going to carry out genocides, turning up the genocidal rhetoric in their attacks on women, on LGBTQ+ people under the banner of quote, "religious freedom." Here's Barr on LGBTQ+ people, quote, "It is no accident that the homosexual movement at 1 or 2% of the population gets treated with such solicitude while the Catholic population, which is over a quarter of the country is given the back of the hand." Actually Grand Dragon Barr, the percentage of the American population that identifies as lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender is closer to 7.6% according to Gallup.
And they've historically been a vulnerable, scapegoated and oppressed group unlike your ruling white patriarchy. All of this is to say join us for our first Gaslit Nation phone bank of 2024. Yes, we're starting early this year folks, plant seeds of change with us at Indivisible June 20th, 8:00 PM to 10:00 PM Eastern. I got the time wrong because our friends at Indivisible, they are in the Midwest organizing these phone banks. So it's going to be 8:00 PM to 10:00 PM Eastern, 6:00 to 8:00 PM local time for them, MDT time. What is that Mountain Time? There'll be a quick training, and for those who stay through the whole phone bank, I'll share a fun story of Andrea Chalupa, Kompromat in the very first 24 hours of announcing the event. 45 people signed up in the first... I haven't checked the latest signup because Indivisible is running all that with us for us.
So I'm sure more folks have come in, so it's going to be a great crowd, a big party online, a big virtual party, phone bank party. I love these things because I get all my anger out. Calling up total strangers and going, "We need to talk." All right, so if you want to sign up for that, look for a link in the show notes for this week's episode. Now, this week's bonus show coming out on Saturday on Patreon for our subscribers of the Truth Teller tier and higher that make Gaslit Nation possible. We're running an extra long show for you responding to your comments about Israel and Palestine. And that show includes a discussion with the Kremlin file Ladies on the making of Vladimir Putin. Look out for that Saturday. It was supposed to run this last Saturday, but one of the Kremlin File ladies did not use a microphone when we recorded. And I will not say which one, but it was Monique and she has since been sent to a re-education camp for doing that through all of my tearful Twitter DMs.
I've been sending her like, "Why didn't you use a mic, Monique, why?" It's a really good discussion. Our wonderful production manager had to give it an extra scrub. So now the audio is great for you and ready for you this coming Saturday. That's going to be a very chilling discussion on the making of Vladimir Putin as well as comments from our listeners on Israel and Palestine and responding to our recent coverage. Thank you to everyone who comments and writes in about the show. I read everything. I really, really enjoy connecting with all of our listeners around the world. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much. For an update on Israel and Palestine Israel in recent days bombed several refugee camps, including in Rafah killing dozens of refugees. One of the worst horrors to come out of this war so far is a viral video of a father holding up his beheaded child, a beheaded baby, that is not Hamas propaganda.
Yes, Hamas is the worst and no one wants to live trapped under Hamas, including the Palestinian people who lost elections after Hamas came to power nearly 20 years ago. But there are international laws that Israel is blatantly ignoring as the ICC's ruling made clear. If Ukraine waged war this way, Ukraine would lose funding. Israel must be held to the same standards as Ukraine or lose all US funding, which obviously won't happen. Because instead, Congress is having Netanyahu now a certified war criminal address, Congress, the people's house. That is such an obscene thing to happen. It's like we're going to need national therapy to get through that. That's like having Putin or the head of Hamas address Congress. These are war criminals. They do not deserve to be legitimized like that. And I understand that Congress is pretty much in control by Christian nationalism that sees Israel as its path to bringing Jesus back.
We've covered that on recent episodes, but Biden, Blinken, Jake Sullivan, it's like there's all carrot and no stick with Israel. And I want to remind my listeners with so much at stake right now in the world, including the lives of children, including the continuation of trauma of the Palestinians and also Israelis. More needs to be done on Biden and his administration to hold international law or what morality do we have or what sort of moral standing do we have in trying to stand up to Putin and his war crimes? What chances there to hold Putin and his mass murderers, his child rapers accountable for their war crimes if we can't even do it with our ally Israel.
So it is okay for us to fight like hell to protect our democracy in 2024 from Trump and his Christian nationalists who want to unleash hell on Earth, who want to imprison us and our bodies. Who will have a horrible date rapist dictatorship, where they'll have their pedophile sadist agents in place, choosing whoever they want out in the crowd and having their security forces bring them in. And doing whatever they want with that woman or child or whoever, just like Gaddafi did when he was in power.
That's what we're headed towards is some cruel sadistic dictatorship unlike the world has seen. Well actually no, it's going to be like any of the cut and paste... Any of them because they're all sadistic and cruel. But I know that's what we're headed towards. But if we don't hold Biden and the Democrats accountable, then we're already living in a one-party state now, aren't we? So it's okay to raise our voices to call for an end to genocide, to contact your members of Congress, to show up on their doorstep of their offices, of their staff and say, "I don't want my tax dollars to pay for what one Holocaust survivor..." Fareed Zakaria, brilliantly, brilliantly laid out a case of genocide. It's genocide. And I'll link to that must watch interview in the show notes of this week's episode. So we can fight for our democracy.
We can fight to stop Trump from coming to power yet again with Russia's help in the 2024 election and we can demand better of our elected officials right now. Because if we don't, we've already lost our democracy. All right. And if you disagree with that, you know where to write me at gaslitnation@gmail.com and thank you to everyone who writes in. I want to draw your attention to an incredibly chilling investigation by The Guardian. It is looking at the years-long campaign by Netanyahu's criminal, corrupt government, unleashing all of the tools including cyber warfare by Mossad. All the spying units of Israel security forces against the ICC and its leading officials and prosecutors to try to undermine and stop their war crimes investigation, which was recently announced on... Basically laying out the whole case of war crimes being committed by Netanyahu as well as Hamas's leadership. Well, the nine years or so that that investigation was ongoing, Netanyahu threw everything he possibly could at it. And this investigation is chilling and people, especially those who hold Israel near and dear in their hearts and their lives, Israel means family to you.
If Israel is a source of cultural warmth and safety and identity to you, it is in your best interest to hold this government, which is one of the worst threats that Israel's ever faced along with Hamas itself. Because it literally funded Hamas as all the reporting has shown. It is in your best interest to confront the corruption and the harassment and just the dystopianness of Netanyahu's government and to demand better. Because no one around the world be safe, if Netanyahu and his coalition of terrorists in Israel are allowed to get away with this. I'm telling you, accountability for what they're doing is safety for all of us around the world. Not just Palestinians because nobody is above the law and any government including the United States that allows any leaders anywhere, any oligarchs anywhere to live above the law, including flouncing war crime verdicts by the highest court in the world.
I mean, how can any of us be safe? So it's... Again, we can do two things at once. We can hold our elected officials accountable and we can fight like hell to protect our democracy at the same time because if we don't, we've already lost our democracy. All right everyone, we have an energizing discussion for you this week. I want people listening to this to keep in mind if we fight like hell in 2024 and we live to fight another day, meaning we stop Trump and the Russians and Netanyahu from coming back into power in the White House. We then direct our energy into reforming electoral college by the next presidential election in 2028.
And then we put our focus on the census in 2030, which is our big opportunity to dismantle gerrymandering. So there is a path ahead for reforming American democracy as we know it to make it safe and to transform it. To live in a safer country where we're not held hostage by all of these fascist threats and their enablers. And we can get there, hold on hope, hold onto each other, refuse to abandon each other, just stay in the fight. Because these are the most critical years ahead for our country and therefore the world.
All right everyone, we are here with Alyssa Cass of the National Vote Pact. We are going to abolish the electoral college because that would liberate so many lives and that would usher in the age of Aquarius. And we'd all be enjoying universal healthcare, bold climate action, robots that serve us, oligarchs that are put in prison and kept on leashes and paying their fair share in taxes. Okay, so tell us Alyssa, how do we abolish electoral college which has caused so much death and destruction in the world? First, George W. Bush that war criminal and then Trump the war criminal both losing the popular vote and winning the slave state monument of electoral college put in place because the slave-owning founding fathers feared direct democracy. Because they wanted to protect their property and wealth and the human beings they had enslaved... Not protect the human beings they had enslaved, but that fortune, they were brutally exploiting. All right, so now tell us, tell us.
Alyssa Cass:
Okay I'm here, I've got to tell you. So first of all, thanks so much for having me on. Huge fan and really excited to talk about what I think for us Democrats is the most important pro-democracy reform, we should all be getting around. And I want to just do one sort of nitpicky, but it's not nitpicky language correction that helps us get this done. This isn't about abolishing the electoral college, this is about making the current system, which we all... I think most of us can agree, is super flawed, worked better. So what is the current system? The current system allows states to... Each state has a certain amount of electors and the majority of states allocate their electors for a winner-takes-all system, not through the popular vote. What the National Popular Vote Bill does, which is allowed by the constitution, which is great and doesn't require a federal amendment.
But this actually works within the confines of our constitution and Article II that says, states may allocate their electors whichever way they want. And what we believe and what 17 states plus the District of Columbia believe is that the best way to do is to do that through a national popular vote. That each state awards their electors based on who wins the national popular vote. And just taking a step back and talking about the pro-democracy promise of the national popular vote, I think that's a good place to start. Despite nonstop wall-to-wall coverage of the presidential election, four out of five American voters will be ignored come the general election this November. And 2024, I think you and I agree and most Americans agree should be the last election where this is the case. When you ignore people's voices, when just only a few thousand votes and a handful of states matters, the outcome isn't pretty.
Look around, the current system leads to divisiveness, allows battleground state courts to pick president and doesn't honor the fundamental principle of democracy that every voter should count equally in presidential elections. And it doesn't have to be that way and there's a plan to fix it. And that plan isn't an academic fever dream. The national popular vote is imminently achievable and is already been passed by 17 states plus the District of Columbia. So already we're at 209 out of 270 electoral votes. Never again do we have to have a president who loses the national popular vote. And by a two to one margin, American voters favor a national popular vote for president. And the National Popular Vote Bill is the only credible way to deliver it and deliver it sooner than we think. At its core, the National Popular Vote Bill advances the principle of one person, one vote when it comes to electing the president.
And there's nothing we can do that would better strengthen our democracy than enacting this plan in additional states and having it take effect for the next president election in 2028. This is the biggest systemic reform that could remedy the problem of divergent elections like we saw in 2016 and 2000 where second place candidates were elected to the office. And I'll stop filibustering there for a second because I've said a lot, but it's because I'm really excited about the potential here. I'm a Democratic political strategist and an advisor, a national advisor to national popular vote. And I think we as Democrats, we are the pro-democracy party, but sometimes we don't exactly know how to express that. We have a president, Joe Biden, who has made protecting and defending democracy a core component of his and our platform. He's running on it again this year, but at the moment it's not clear that Democrats' promise to safeguard democracy will galvanize voters.
A Gallup poll I think about showed that just 28% of US adults are satisfied with the way democracy is working in the United States, a new low. Another Economist/YouGov poll found that only half of Americans under the age of 45 agree with the statement that democracy is the greatest form of government. And although we Democrats have spent years making the case that democracy is in peril and that we're the party working to protect it. It seems like many voters either don't see it as an urgent issue or don't buy the idea that we're especially well to handle it. I have theories on why that might be the case. Despite efforts that have been really important, like calling for the passage of voting rights legislation that has long been and will probably continue to be deadlocked in Congress, shoring up election infrastructure, passing the Electoral Count Reform Act, all important.
We Democrats have communicated that the larger plan to defend democracy pretty much begins and end with defeating Donald Trump and Republicans. But it doesn't have to be this way. If Democrats want voters outside their base and our base to believe that we're committed to defending democracy and for those voters to be motivated by this issue. We need to expand our case, beyond the threats posed by Trump and the Republicans. I think all of us in the Democratic ecosystem must mobilize around clear actionable efforts that will demonstrate to Americans that we're truly invested in improving and strengthening democracy over the long term. And there's no better way to do that than us all getting behind the National Popular Vote Bill and continuing to pass it in additional states. And we're really close.
Andrea Chalupa:
209, that's how many electoral votes you have. We're at 209 now. Plus let me just... I will pull up my... I'm not a numbers gal. Sorry. Let me ask you, do those states, those 209 electoral votes, are those states pledging in this election? Once they accept the PAC at the state level, does that mean that every presidential election they are accepting the popular vote?
Alyssa Cass:
So they pass the bill but it wouldn't go into effect until the compact in total reaches 270-
Andrea Chalupa:
Damn.
Alyssa Cass:
I know, but I mean that's a whole other case. I don't think we necessarily want... We saw this, this was a Supreme Court case, having states choose willy-nilly, how they allocate their electors that could open a whole other can of worms we don't want. And also the goal is to achieve a national popular vote. That can't happen until there are a number of states whose electoral college votes add up to 270. Right now we're at 209. We're really optimistic about what can happen in Michigan. That's another 15.
Andrea Chalupa:
Oh yeah.
Alyssa Cass:
And I would know Michigan is the only Democratic trifecta state left that hasn't passed the national popular vote. So we really want Michigan to pass that this session. Not only is it another 15 votes, but a big battleground state saying, "Hey, this doesn't make sense." And also my suspicion if you live in a battleground state like Michigan, I think you're pretty goddamn sick of getting a hundred pieces of mail and not being able to watch TV, because it's President Trump-
Andrea Chalupa:
Oh, I phone bank into all those states and they hate it. The nicest people, you hear these really nice Midwestern accents go, "Oh, I got to..." Just hanging up on you, really kindly.
Alyssa Cass:
[inaudible 00:38:55] legislators, give your constituents relief from all of the endless mail. I think it's not only the right thing to do for our democracy, but I think it's the right thing for them to do politically.
Andrea Chalupa:
Okay, so what about the Supreme Court? What are the safeguards there? So we know that it's been packed with mullahs with Fox News mullahs. What will happen once you get to 270? So let's say there's 270 electoral college states and they're like, "We're doing this," and the Supreme Court says, "No you're not." Because the Heritage Foundation or some other Trump machine brings the case to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court just says no and it becomes a constitutional crisis. And they claim that there's a coup against democracy, but really it's democracy in action.
Alyssa Cass:
Many people harbor the incorrect notion that the method of electing the president is fully specified in the US Constitution. This is a fundamental misconception that leads to the incorrect conclusion that changing the system of electing the president requires a federal constitutional amendment or that an interstate compact like this wouldn't pass Supreme Court muster. The Electoral College, to be clear, is in the Constitution. However, the method of choosing its members is not in the US Constitution.
Andrea Chalupa:
Ooh, that's a loophole.
Alyssa Cass:
Let me read what the US Constitution actually says, "Each state shall appoint in a manner as the legislator therefore may direct a number of electors." So yes, generally speaking, me as a progressive Democrat, all of the textualist on the Supreme Court give me a lot of anxiety not on this issue. The most textual by-the-book reading of the Constitution says NPV, national popular vote, there are no constitutional issues. The sort of constitutional arguments are usually thrown out by people who are against this and unsophisticated on both the Constitution and what NPV is about.
Andrea Chalupa:
So what other states... So Michigan may join with bringing in 15, which would bump us up to 24.
Alyssa Cass:
Yeah, so we're at 209 because Maine just passed this in April, Michigan would add another 15. And then there are a bunch of states where this has already been passed by one chamber. That includes Arizona, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Virginia and North Carolina. I think listeners to your podcast might have questions whether this is moving forward in Oklahoma, but places like Arizona, Virginia, North Carolina, and again Michigan, where this has already been passed by one chamber. And I should note, and most states where this has been passed, it's been passed with bipartisan support. In Maine, there was both a Republican and a Democratic sponsor of this bill. I've been working with the National Popular Vote Organization for some time and we're a combination of Democrats and Republicans. This is not like a Democratic only initiative. This is one of the few bipartisan electoral... One of the few electoral forums that actually has bipartisan support and that's not made up, that's not a talking point by me, that's in all of these states.
You see Republican support for the National Popular Vote Bill in their state and the research supports it. For your listeners who are thinking about how to talk about this, the Pew data is I think really compelling. You see strong bipartisan support for this. A majority of moderate and liberal Republicans, 63% say that they would back the country moving to a popular vote for president. And amongst all Republicans that number is 47%, up from 37% in 2021. There is real bipartisan support for this. It's not a talking point, it's not a pipe dream. It's very real.
Andrea Chalupa:
Okay, great. Well it makes perfect sense. Because I mean Bush and Trump ravaged America's standing in the world. And I know they got their tax cuts and that's all great, but it's also been just a disaster on so many fronts for so many people. The last time you were on the show you were here with Melissa of the States Project.
Alyssa Cass:
Yeah.
Andrea Chalupa:
And you guys were talking about all your work with the miracle worker of the States Project, which has done so much heavy lifting in building progressive infrastructure on the ground in key states. And that was like a big blue wave organization-
Alyssa Cass:
[inaudible 00:44:04] including on this issue.
Andrea Chalupa:
That's what I was going to ask you because if the States Project is already on the ground in these key states. And I know from interviewing Daniel Squadron and Melissa on our big Virginia episode where we destroyed Youngkin, destroyed him. We did what we needed to do in that election last fall. So if they already have that infrastructure in all these key states, how are your organizations working together to ensure that you get the remaining electoral votes to get to 270?
Alyssa Cass:
So we do a variety of things. So in every state that we work in, we develop a SWAT team of national and in-state partners to move this legislation forward, and to have the conversation with state lawmakers that we need to. The States Project has been a critical part of that effort. I remember... That was how I first got introduced to this issue, the National Popular Vote Bill was in the States Project model library. And they've been a huge champion of this on the ground in all of the states we're operating. And the States Project, an incredible national organization that I'm so proud to have worked for and I'm so blown away and a little offended by how they've grown without me.
Andrea Chalupa:
They just took off as soon as you left.
Alyssa Cass:
But they have been a critical partner and continue to be.
Andrea Chalupa:
This is probably one of the best conversations I've had in a while because all of my guests have been like, "Let me tell you about Project 2025," and I'm like, "Ugh, I need to just talk to..." We need to get rid of the electoral college. All of my interviews have led me to this one and if we can pull this off, we would be liberated. It's like the shackles of slavery around American democracy choking all of us. And what sort of pushback are you getting from the far right Christian nationalist conspiracy out there, the Koch political network and all that dark money? How are they coming after you guys?
Alyssa Cass:
Someone I partner on this with, who leads this effort, who helps lead this effort is himself like a true Republican, worked for Bush, worked for Forbes. And he was someone who, when he was brought the national popular vote kind of plan decades ago, read it to, I think, debunk it or he would say that himself. When you see what this would really do, it's so eminently reasonable that it's really hard to stand against it that even if you aren't a reasonable person, what are the arguments against this? You don't want the person with the most votes to be president? There are lots of things that you can take that are totally crazy and convince voters they are not, this is really hard to make one of them, which is why we see Republicans supporting this. Like the former Michigan Republican state party chair who was almost the national RNC chair is behind this and you see Republican support... Look at the numbers I just read you, that over 60% of Republicans support a move to the national popular vote.
Andrea Chalupa:
That's amazing. Do you think the growing Republican support comes from their sort of never Trumpers exacerbation with the system and wanting to Trump... What's the proper word, like neuter the electoral college, overcome the electoral college?
Alyssa Cass:
I think it's reform the current system, which is it's reforming the current system-
Andrea Chalupa:
Reform the electoral college. So do you think that this growing Republican sentiment in support for reforming the electoral college, is that coming in reaction to Trump and the extreme Republican gerrymandering that primary after primary rewards all of these MAGA extremists? Are they the moderates, the independents that finally want to take back some power and some sanity?
Alyssa Cass:
I think I would answer in a slightly different way, and that is, look, no matter what your ideological leaning is, if you are the most right or the most left, no one likes having their vote not matter and their voice not heard. No one likes not being seen and not being listened to. You see that in your personal... If I ignore my boyfriend, he gets pretty angry. If you ignore the four out of five American voters, they get pretty angry and want to be heard. National popular vote is the way for them to be heard.
Andrea Chalupa:
Right. Because obviously if you're a voter in Arkansas, you get skipped over by these presidential campaigns. They make one stop to raise money and then they all saturate Pennsylvania and the rest of the Rust Belt.
Alyssa Cass:
What unites... Why I think you see such broad support is if you've got six Trump flags in your yard in Arkansas or if you're wearing a pink pussy hat in New York City, your voice and your vote are ignored. No one likes that.
Andrea Chalupa:
It's a lot like being in Russia to be honest. It's like why vote when it's like... But at least you have the local elections that matter. That's why you have to vote. And yeah. So what is next for your organization? What are your immediate goals now through the 2024 election and in 2025, what should we be on the lookout for?
Alyssa Cass:
So I think 2024 is an incredible opportunity to point out the most obvious thing because unfortunately there are so many scenarios that I think we can all envision today that's going to create a groundswell for change. This election is coming down to a handful of states. Look, let's talk through those scenarios. One, I think we can all envision that a single state... Comes down to one tipping point state and how one state Supreme Court rules in that that's crazy and will strike people as crazy. The litigation and lawsuit potential in this election is so high. And if something like that happens that creates a groundswell for change that I think propels us over the finish line to make 2024 the last non-popular vote election and change that for 2028. I think that there are lots of scenarios where there is a divergent election or there's a scenario that we see both campaigns, Biden and Trump really taking seriously, which is a tied electoral college scenario.
We see there are all these headlines about what's happening in Nebraska like the Republicans trying to take away... In Nebraska, there's one part of the state that will vote that traditionally votes Democratic and Republicans really want to change that and Democrats are fighting with all of their might to make sure that doesn't happen. That is because all of the smart people, strategists of which that exists on both campaigns see a very real world where we're at 269/269. That would be... Just imagine we think Bush v. Gore was horrible and tore our country apart, 269/269 in this election, the country lights on fire and that creates... Hope that doesn't happen. But there are so many scenarios that create a groundswell for change. The level of dissatisfaction with our democracy, with our political system, it's at such a high degree that at some point the dam breaks. And I think the dam breaks in 2024 and that this is the last election where the president is not chosen through a national popular vote.
Andrea Chalupa:
So obviously you're going to continue your work in 2025 and try to get some more states and you want to get everything in line so that by 2028 the popular vote wins.
Alyssa Cass:
You need to get to... For the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact to be in effect, we would need 270 votes in the six months prior to the election date in 2028. We're really close and we certainly have time and think all of the factors are in place to push us over the finish line to make sure that this is the last election under the current system.
Andrea Chalupa:
So we have to through the States Project, which I have... I'm part of a group, the State Fair, which I'll link to in the show notes for this week's episode. So through the States Project, we have to make sure that Democrats and sensible Independents and Republicans hold power in all the states that we need to get to 270. And we need to go scorched earth. We need to go with the SWAT team to get that legislation passed in these states. And then we need to get the meanest Ulysses S. Grant, Nazi Hunter lawyers to defend all this from the Supreme Court. Because they're going to be mad, they're going to be mad. Alito is going to put that flag upside down again.
Alyssa Cass:
I think... I'm not a lawyer. I think that the constitutional case here is pretty cut and dry and all credible experts, legal experts agree with my assessment of that. But I think that one of the most important things we can do as... Progressive Democrats at every level of government from the grassroots to the tippy top, need to get behind NPV, the National Popular Vote Bill as the most important and achievable electoral reform. Let's stop talking about pipe dreams. Let's all align around this being a priority in our platform. I want to hear every member of Congress talking about this. I want to hear every state legislator, I want to hear every Democrat who runs a democracy or voting org should be talking this way. Having that sort of consensus and embrace of... We Democrats, we love a silver bullet, this is it. This is one of them. Let's all get behind this. That's game changing.
Andrea Chalupa:
What can people do listening? I mean, I already mentioned they can join me in the States Project and work with groups like mine in the States Project to build power in these states that we need. But what else can people do listening that want to make this finally happen and be in place for 2028?
Alyssa Cass:
So first I encourage everyone to go to our website nationalpopularvote.com. There are tons of ways to get involved and write a letter to your elected officials at every level of the ballot. If you're in a state, and I think in particular, if you're in a state like Michigan or Arizona or Arkansas or Virginia or North Carolina, you should be loudly telling your state lawmakers to get behind this bill and to pass it.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yes.
Alyssa Cass:
And there's no disagreement amongst most reasonable state lawmakers that this is a thing that they want to do. We don't struggle to convince them, but it does need to be moved up to the front of their mind. State lawmakers have a lot that they're doing. Most state legislative chambers are not full-time bodies. When state lawmakers are in session, they need to hear from their constituents that this is a priority for them, that's game changing and really easy to do.
Andrea Chalupa:
I'm so excited. This is wonderful. So I believe in this. I believe we can do this. Alyssa, you were involved in so many initiatives. You are on the ground in the progressive grassroots and working with so many great elected officials and organizations. In this dark time, in this make it or break it yet again, election for our democracy. What keeps you fighting? What sustains you in your work?
Alyssa Cass:
Finding projects and people that I do think can make a difference and they're hard to find. And for me, national popular vote is one of them. Look, I'm a democratic partisan. I will fight tooth and nail in congressional elections and presidential elections, whatever it is. And oftentimes that work, while it's important, doesn't give me joy on a day-to-day basis. Like trashing Republicans to the New York Post is an important thing to win elections, it makes me feel not great as a human, but this does.
And it does because it is achievable and it is the single biggest thing we could do to fix so many of our problems. With a snap of a finger, does it remove hyper partisanship? No, but it alleviates it. With a snap of a finger, does it make every American who feels unheard or disenfranchised believe that they're heard? No. But it does a lot to it. And getting behind... I think a lot of people feel that no matter what they do or what we get behind, it doesn't matter. NPV is such a strong counterfactual to that. This has been the work of decades and we are now at 209 out of 270 electoral votes with a clear path to reaching 270. That should give people a lot of hope. It certainly does me.
Andrea Chalupa:
So let me tell you this, why don't your organization have someone come on every single year through 2028, and then let's get this passed. So give us an update every year. I will run the calls to action regularly on this show. So we just stay on top of this and get it done. And then once we reform electoral college heading into the 2028 election, then let's set our sights on getting rid of gerrymandering thanks to the 2030 census. Because the census is where it's at in 2030. That is our opportunity with the electoral college reformed in 2028, then all hands on deck for the census in 2030 where we go to war against gerrymandering. We will be living in an all-new America and the KKK will be back hiding under their hoods where they belong and not out in Congress and not in the state houses. That's what we need.
Alyssa Cass:
Yeah. Well, I'm here to formally accept your offer to come on, me or one of my friends every year. Thank you for your support. It's huge, motivating the grassroots and your listeners are the way we get this done. So thank you for the opportunity today and I look forward to seeing you next year.
Andrea Chalupa:
Absolutely. Another world is possible and we're going to build it.
Alyssa Cass:
Woohoo! Let's do it.