Christian Taliban
Reminder! This Thursday, fight for your mind! To get inspired to make art and bring your projects across the finish line, join us for the Gaslit Nation LIVE Make Art Workshop this Thursday April 11 at 7pm EST – be sure to be subscribed at the Truth-teller level or higher to get your ticket to the event!
We also ask you to urge members of Congress to sign the discharge petitions to overcome MAGA’s blockade of Ukraine aid in the House. Use this handy site made by a Gaslit Nation listener to contact your reps today: https://helpukrainewin.com/
In this week’s Gaslit Nation, Andrea and Terrell Star of the Black Diplomats Podcast & Substack get raptured! No, we’re still here, fighting fascism at home and abroad. And still with us, unfortunately, is Trump’s actual army of far-right Christian nationalists determined to destroy our democracy from within. What’s needed to fight a holy war? Another holy war, if your faith is in empathy and science.
In this End Times-themed discussion (in honor of the 4.8 earthquake striking near Trump’s Bedminister golf course, opening up the gates of hell just in time for the election, and the solar eclipse that blinded the latest winners of the Darwin Awards), we discuss how to protect democracy against a transnational crime syndicate wielding Christian nationalism as its weapon. We also review the must-watch documentary "Bad Faith," based on the book by former Gaslit Nation guest and journalist Anne Nelson, titled Shadow Network: Media, Money, and the Secret Hub of the Radical Right. We also look at Bobby Kennedy Jr.’s campaign to help Trump come to power, Michael Flynn’s propaganda tour to energize authoritarian voters, the most dangerous men in the Biden administration who should have been replaced long ago, and why, in a time of genocide and other existential threats, straight white old guys are no longer a “safe bet.” But we’ll vote for Biden anyway, because we don’t have the time or resources to fight for survival and against a second, never-ending Trump regime.
This week’s bonus episode, exclusively for our supporters at the Truth-teller level and higher, is a discussion of Evangelicals and Israel – staunch allies for opportunistic reasons. They also constitute a crucial element in Trump's potential Electoral College victory, where Biden barely squeaked by thanks to a mere 44,000 votes scattered across Georgia, Arizona, and Wisconsin. Yes, it was that close. So don't forget to pre-order the documentary Bad Faith, organize a watch party with friends and neighbors, and complete the recommended steps in the Gaslit Nation 2024 Survival Guide. What is your plan to help protect our democracy this year from Trump and his dreaded Project 2025, discussed in this week’s episode?
To our supporters at the Democracy Defender level and higher, submit your questions for our upcoming Q&A! We always enjoy hearing from you! Thank you to everyone who supports the show – we could not make Gaslit Nation without you!
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SHOW NOTES:
Clip: Watch the trailer for Bad Faith https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WYseVO29ZU
Clip: Bobby Kennedy Jr.’s New York State Campaign Manager Proudly Declares They’re Trying to Help Trump Win https://twitter.com/cwebbonline/status/1777021184737194221
Clip: Michael Flynn: From Government Insider to Holy Warrior | FRONTLINE + AP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHqohI-ZNhY
Inside the Election Denial Groups Planning to Disrupt November
https://www.wired.com/story/election-denial-groups-november-2024/
Inside the Terrifyingly Competent Trump 2024 Campaign With Donald Trump mostly focused on his own legal peril—leaving staffers free to run the campaign—the candidate’s third bid for the White House is as efficient as it is explicitly authoritarian. How worried should you be? Very.
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/inside-trump-2024-campaign
Narrow Wins In These Key States Powered Biden To The Presidency
https://www.npr.org/2020/12/02/940689086/narrow-wins-in-these-key-states-powered-biden-to-the-presidency
Obama Warned Trump Against Hiring Mike Flynn, Say Officials The warning came less than 48 hours after the November election when the two sat down for a conversation in the Oval Office.
Trump could face more FBI raids as witness suggests documents still hidden: ex-prosecutor
https://www.rawstory.com/classified-documents-2667695220/
The latest in Republican Gaslighting: Democratic Oregon House candidate is big Republican donor Brian Maguire has given hundreds of thousands of dollars to state and federal Republican candidates and causes
The Electoral College question looming over 2024 Whether the GOP has maintained its Electoral College advantage could determine how close the Biden vs. Trump contest really is — and who wins in the end.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/electoral-college-question-looming-2024-rcna145950
State Department sees unprecedented flood of internal dissent memos over Gaza war Exclusive: Eight internal dissent memos were sent by State Department staff during the first two months of the Gaza war, compared to just one sent during the first three years of the Iraq War
Trump pledges to expel immigrants who support Hamas, ban Muslims from the U.S.
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-pledges-expel-immigrants-who-support-hamas-ban-muslims-us-2023-10-16/
Biden Shields Palestinians in the U.S. From Deportation The president, who is facing mounting criticism over U.S. support for Israel, used an authority that exempts people from deportation if their homeland is in crisis.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/us/politics/biden-palestinians-deportation.html
About Three-in-Ten U.S. Adults Are Now Religiously Unaffiliated Self-identified Christians make up 63% of U.S. population in 2021, down from 75% a decade ago
For American Evangelicals Who Back Israel, ‘Neutrality Isn’t an Option’ Conservative Christians’ strong connection to Israel forms the backbone of Republican support, and is tied to beliefs about biblical promises and prophecy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/15/us/american-evangelicals-israel-hamas.html
What is an evangelical Christian? In America, evangelicalism has become as much a political as a religious identity
https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2021/03/01/what-is-an-evangelical-christian
Investigators for the Justice Department wanted to search Donald Trump’s New Jersey golf club for top secret documents but lacked probable cause to secure a warrant, says a report.
Women and children are the main victims of the Israel-Hamas war with 16,000 killed, UN says
https://apnews.com/article/women-children-gaza-war-victims-un-inequality-f0f89a724543b99c2c22439e7af09405
Andrea Chalupa (00:10.958)
Welcome to Gaslit Nation. I am your host, Andrea Chalupa, a journalist and filmmaker and the writer and producer of the journalistic thriller, Mr. Jones, about Stalin's genocide famine in Ukraine, a history of genocide that's repeating right now under Putin as the world watches. A reminder to everyone, we are having the exclusive, just for our Patreon community that keeps the show going.
Make Art Workshop, the business side of things, where we're getting together this Thursday, April 11 at 7 pm. Eastern, where I'm going to share the recipe of my secret hot sauce on how I got Mr. Jones made without any Hollywood connections. I was not born into a filmmaking family. In fact, my family of Ukrainian immigrants wanted me to become president of the United States, a doctor, a lawyer, something a lot more stable.
So I'm gonna talk about how I built up the coalition of soulmates that came together and made that powerful, timeless film and how you can too. If I could do it, given how socially awkward I am, given what a cuddle bug I am by nature, if I can learn how to backstroke among sharks out there in the business world, you can too, I promise you. It's just a skill, just like carpentry or changing a tire is a skill. You can learn all this stuff too.
So I'm gonna be sharing all that. It's gonna be a live workshop. I will send out the Zoom link to the Patreon folks at the TrueTar level and higher on the morning of Thursday, April 11 for that evening's Hangout. It's gonna be recorded and shared exclusively there on Patreon. It's important to support the show there because we have a wonderful production team that's been with us since the beginning that keeps the show going. We are like family. We all are fighting for the people we love for our children, for future generations, for the communities that we love, our LGBTQ friends, everyone through this show. So by supporting us on Patreon, you're supporting not just me, but the team of people with me, the family, keeping Gaslight Nation going. And again, we've been together since the beginning through the hellfire of January 6th and so on, and we're still at it. And we're going to continue being with you through this election, this make it or break it election that's going to define the...
Andrea Chalupa (02:25.614)
path that the world will be on in the generations to come. So I'm joined today by my dear friend, Tyrell Starr, of the Essential Black Diplomats podcast and substack. You can check out his work in the show notes for this week's episode. And we're going to be going through all the big stories, namely, of course, the 2024 election, where we think things are headed and what to do about all of it. Just first off, I want to check in with you, Terrell. How are you doing? How was your earthquake here in New York on Friday?
Terrell Starr:
Oh, man. Thank you for asking. I'm doing good. I'm doing well, doing good. I am in good spirits. I'm trying to get my book proposal knocked out today. Also, the earthquake didn't really bother me as much. I thought that was my neighbor above me on their treadmill because that tremor I heard it before. But I said, wow, this person must really be working the hell out of that treadmill. And of course, it was an earthquake. Nice.
Andrea Chalupa:
Good for you. You didn't get freaked out. I thought it was the wrath of God personally, because my whole building started shaking. My cat freaked out. I was like, ah, finally I'm being raptured. I'm going to get out of this bitch. But no, I'm still here. And I have to point out that the center of the earthquake was right near Trump National Golf Club at Bedminster, New Jersey. And I want to just say that that is an urgent siren wake up call from Mother Nature saying that it's time, long past time, for the feds to raid Bedminister like they did Mar-a-Lago and to look for more stolen, highly sensitive classified documents that Trump took from the US government to sell to his transnational crime syndicate friends who are keeping him and his many illicit operations going through that easy, easy, dirty money, laundered money, and so on. Or it's Ivana rolling in her grave. And also this solar eclipse.
I took my kid out of school. I took them to the rooftop of my building in Brooklyn. I joined in with a bunch of neighbors. I really nerded out on that solar eclipse.
Terrell Starr:
That was like - Yeah, when's the next one?
Andrea Chalupa:
Well, I'll guess like 30, let's see 2045. 2045 will be over North America. That's the next one. You and I will be president of the United States. We will be benevolent dictators. You know, progressive dictators carrying out our far left agenda and making everyone's lives a better place, whether they want it or not.
Andrea Chalupa (04:48.654)
free housing, basic income for everyone.
Terrell Starr:
Yeah, we're going to be like Switzerland, American style.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yes, yes. Benevolent dictators of good. That is the long game here on Gaslit Nation.
Terrell Starr:
Yeah, yeah. You know, it's so funny. I had a friend of mine from Ukraine who lives in Switzerland, and she says that in her town, they had some over, they had some revenue left over from the previous year. And so they held a town meeting so that the community could discuss how to best use those funds. Now, mind you, she's coming from Ukraine where, you know, they have all their issues going on there, but also here in the United States. Can you imagine if we had a society where we have revenue and then the community can logically come together and say, this is what we'll do now. Maybe those communities exist. I just don't know of many of them.
But real shout out to Switzerland about how great their country is and how well we as Americans can do if we get beyond our own silos.
Andrea Chalupa:
Without question. Instead, the middle class, the working class, the poor, we're all paying for Trump's tax cuts to the oligarchs, to the multi -billionaires, to the multi -millionaires who funded his campaign in 2016 are funding it now even though it's a Christian nationalist movement, much like Hitler's rise to power. On Friday night, Terrell and I watched a chilling documentary based on the book, The Shadow Network, by Ann Nelson, who has been on the show all about the far -right's long game, the libertarian extremists who used religion, extreme Christianity, and used anti -environmental laws. It was sort of like the marriage of big oil, American oligarchs, extreme Christianity coming together, and this libertarian takeover of the Republican Party that helped bring Trump to power in 2016, packed 30 % of our courts, and has repealed a lot of rights many of us took for granted and enjoyed for so long, like Roe v. Wade, affirmative action. Neither of those laws of the land were by any means perfect.
Andrea Chalupa (07:13.454)
but we just sort of always expected them to be there. Now they're gone. And now we're in a constant war against our own government. Many states literally out there trying to kill their own citizens and deprive them of basic rights like IVF, the basic right of trying to start a family. That's where we are. So we're going to talk about that documentary. It's called Bad Faith. It is a must watch film. It really shows the nuts and bolts and how deeply well organized and well funded the Christian nationalist movement is. And you see what they're harvesting. It's Mike Johnson, Speaker of the House, holding on to power by one member of Congress, deliberately blocking Ukraine aid when Ukraine is trying to fight off an existential genocide against Russia. And more and more North Korean, Iranian drones and missiles are getting in and slaughtering more civilians across Ukraine. Like that is the product of Christian nationalism. That is the end game of Christian nationalism. That is why I said on the show since the beginning that Ukraine is the canary in the coal mine. Look at what they're doing to Ukraine to see what they're going to do to you next. That is why we care about Ukraine. That is why we talk about Ukraine. That is why we cannot let Ukraine lose. Okay, that's why we all must ensure Ukraine's ultimate victory and that it becomes a strong flourishing democracy that inspires that part of the world that desperately needs healing, desperately needs democracy in that broader region and so on. So what they're doing to Ukraine is what they want to do to us. They want to dominate us. They want to control us.
They want to force us into their way of thinking, their way of life. Christian nationalism is how Putin and Orban came to power and consolidated power. That is what Trump is running on today. So we're going to talk about that documentary. And my initial reaction to that was Dorothy Thompson, of course, in her essay, Who Goes Nazi, where she shares this disturbing party game, where she writes how at your next dinner party, here is how to know who among you
would become a Nazi if given the chance. And the people she describes back when she wrote this essay in 1941 were the Elon Musk's, the trust fund kids that think that they came to power thanks to their own clever minds, not their inherited wealth. The Jared Kushners, people who, they may be Jewish, but they're happy to betray Jewish people and all historically scapegoated minority groups, for more power, more money. And of course the self -hating women.
Andrea Chalupa (09:38.126)
This essential essay by Dorothy Thompson from 1941 lays it all out there of who goes Nazi among us. And she tells you how she knows this because she saw it happen in her beloved Austria, where she rose to fame as an international correspondent, and in her beloved Germany, which used to be one of the most vibrant, exciting, liberal, artistic hotspots in the world. Berlin was an LGBTQ plus paradise.
for the world where there's all sorts of openness and art and creativity and innovation, or you could just be whoever you naturally felt you wanted to be. You had safety there in Berlin and the Nazis came to power and they destroyed it all. So Dorothy Thompson being a free spirit, being an independent spirit, being a woman with this endless enthusiasm for life, just loved that part of the world and she lost everything she loved within just a matter of a few short years. And she watched how the Nazis did it and she watched them trying to do it through Charles Lindbergh, through Henry Ford, through the Tucker Carlson's of her day in the United States. And that urgency she fought with against all that inspired her husband Sinclair Lewis to write the novel, It Can't Happen Here, because it can happen here and it is happening here. So that was the first thing I thought when watching that bad faith documentary. The other thing I thought about was all of us here in this election and how so many people are feeling disillusioned right now. And so many people feel betrayed by Biden, because you have DeJoy still in power overseeing our mail, where the latest reports are showing how our mail is being deliberately slowed down, even worse than it was before. These are the latest reports coming out. You have Federalist Society member Christopher Wray, who allowed the January 6th violent attack against our democracy. He's still in power as head of the FBI at a time when Trump's Christian nationalism and terrorism is on the rise and they're promising violence. They're out there openly promising violence to disrupt this election, whether they win or lose.
And then you have Merrick Garland, the worst of the worst, who waited out the clock, who waited out the precious time we simply did not have to bring anything, anything that remotely looked like any sort of meaningful investigation into Trump's terrorist attack on January 6th and the Mueller report and how Mueller testified under oath to Congress saying that Trump could be indicted after he left office. Merrick Garland deliberately denied the people.
Andrea Chalupa (11:59.246)
justice and then gaslit all of us about it just waiting out that damn clock and putting us in greater and greater danger and then you have National Security advisor Jake Sullivan who is chewing his nails spooked out by Putin's shadow Playing into Putin's nuclear war blackmail refusing to give Ukraine what it needs all this time to truly truly defend itself and liberate territory that has turned into Soviet death camps under occupation. And all these reports are coming out saying that Jake Sullivan is really afraid of Putin's blackmail, meaning that Putin's mind games work on Jake Sullivan, meaning that Jake Sullivan has no business being Biden's national security advisor because he just simply does not have the moral courage for that role right now. So there's a lot of how Biden has fallen short for all of us, no matter who you are and how you feel about any of the current events today. Okay. And on top of that, there's the genocidal. Gaza policy that has been just agony, agony to watch. Yes, it's the status quo of American foreign policy, but it's even worse. It's even worse now because we know most Americans know very clearly who Netanyahu is. He's the Israeli Trump. He's the Israeli Putin. He's under investigation for corruption. People around him are under investigation for corruption. He tried to overthrow the court system to cling to power, unleashing the largest protests in all of Israel's history. This guy has zero credibility. He's a wannabe autocrat. And now he has promised, he's come out on record promising a forever war just to stay in power and avoid accountability and is a desperate attempt to die in power like any wannabe autocrat. It is a genocidal war. He has surrounded himself by infamous terrorists to try to cling to power and stay in power. And yet the Biden administration is pumping him full of warplanes and ammunition to carry out this genocide that is slaughtered by now conservative estimates, 30,000 civilians, the majority of them women and children carrying out a second Nakba. It is just a disaster on Biden's record that he can never ever undo and the buck stops with him. There are reports that there have been nine dissent memos sent at the State Department, nine dissent memos and trying to force a change, enforce an end to policy.
Andrea Chalupa (14:19.982)
Yes, Biden has come out and said that he wants some aid to Israel to be conditional, but we haven't really seen action behind that. Don't listen to what they say, watch what they do. His actions have not backed that up. Before he said that, like a week or so before he said that, Israel got a big shipment of US warplanes and other ammunition to slaughter civilians. I get a rage over this when I think about it. And so am I going to have a hard time voting for Biden? One trillion percent. On the Gaza issue alone. On the Gaza issue alone, yes, yes, yes, yes. And that is how I feel. I have a right to feel that way. And so many people have a right to feel that way. And I understand you for feeling that way. Am I also going to have a hard time voting for Biden when it comes to Ukraine? One trillion percent yes. One trillion percent yes. I cannot tell you the rage I keep inside myself that I have to shove down to put on a brave face, a smile for my children when I'm with my kids.
And when I'm going about my business, when I'm showing up for my people, for my community, I have to shove it all down this horrible white heat rage inside of me over what Biden and Jake Sullivan have done to Ukraine. They have yet to make up their minds whether they want Ukraine to win this war or not. They sabotaged Ukraine's counteroffensive. They meddled into it. They didn't give Ukraine everything that it needed. On top of that, they knew that the Republicans were coming to take over the House, they knew that they're going to be hampered with this Mike Johnson MAGA Congress. They knew, it was obvious. The historical trend was clear that this was going to happen. They're going to lose control of Congress, which would tie their hands on what Ukraine could get. Instead of shoving everything they possibly could to get Ukraine through this stalemate with this MAGA Congress, they didn't do enough to prepare for that. Because why? They were afraid of Putin's blackmail. They're afraid of Putin's shadow.
Okay. And they have yet to make up their minds whether they want Ukraine to actually win this war. When people, when Ukraine's allies make the empty, cruel statement that Ukrainians are over there dying for all of us, doing the fighting and dying for all of us. How many Ukrainians do you think they have left to do that? Pretty soon they're going to run out of Ukrainians to do the fighting and dying for us. And then what then? What then? What are you going to do then Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland? What will you do then? Okay. And I'm telling you.
Andrea Chalupa (16:38.798)
They have fallen so short on Ukraine that it's, it makes my skin crawl when I think about it. But here's the thing. Here's where we're stuck in this horrible dystopian nightmare that we're all sharing in. When it came down to the 2020 election, Biden only won that election by 44 ,000 votes spread across three states, just three states. I think it was Arizona, Michigan, Georgia, just three states. I'll put in the show notes what those states were. My point is, with our slave state monument, the Electoral College, Biden only won by 44 ,000 votes spread across three key states, meaning we barely, barely dodged a second Trump presidency, which would have been the last presidency for the foreseeable future of our American democracy. It would have been game over for us. He would have just stayed in power indefinitely until he died. And then they'd pass the baton to Ivanka, whoever they thought would come next.
So I just want to remind everyone how extraordinarily close this election is going to be. Right now in the polls, Biden and Trump are tied with Trump doing slightly better in Michigan, one of the key states the Democrats must win, a state with a sizable Arab American and Muslim populations, which are rightfully heartbroken, agonizing, rage -filled, betrayed by what Biden's administration is doing by funding and propping up Netanyahu's genocide against the Palestinian people. They have every reason and right not to want to vote for him without question, without question. And I would never in a million years judge anyone who felt that way at all. But I want to just say to myself, because of how I've been feeling and the anger I've been carrying inside that I've had to shove down, which doesn't feel very healthy to me, I understand. But I know I'm bringing this out there because I know if I'm feeling this way, there's others out there who are feeling this way. And I want to say to myself and to all of us, this is my conclusion. This is what I've come down to. I feel that given how stretched our resources are in this world that needs so much healing, in this world that needs so much help, our resources, our time, our energy, our emotional energy, our focus, our attention, our money, all of those resources are going to be so stretched thin. The resources, the love we need to help each other, help the communities around us, we need healing.
Andrea Chalupa (19:04.174)
We are going to be so stretched thin if we have to do the work we're all being called to do right now in this moment of collective trauma, if we have to also fight a Trump regime that's going to be deliberately coming at us, that's going to be sending his militias at us, who's going to be pardoning the thousand plus people who were arrested for trying to violently overthrow our democracy in January 6th and continue to pardon them for all the violence they're going to carry out against us during Trump's time in office, right? So we are going to have, we're going to be just, it's going to be game over for our democracy. I do believe in this larger spiritual force that humanity, civilization will ultimately survive and break through, but we're going to be Franco Spain for the foreseeable future, at least in the rest of our lifetime, right? And under Trump and whatever comes after him.
Whoever they elect, they put in power, like the Pope of America, they'll put in power after him. But we cannot afford that. We simply cannot afford that because we already have so much work to do. Just look alone at the climate crisis that needs us, the healing that needs us. The world has been activated unlike ever before. There's a reason why the majority of Americans go against Biden when it comes to his Gaza policy.
Even young evangelicals in a state of Israel, where white evangelicals and Israelis are practically one, Israel is practically an evangelical state given how close those two groups are, right? And pushing for their own very different motives for the existence of Israel. Even young white evangelicals are breaking off with older generations and seeing Israel differently and seeing Palestinians as humans.
That's a sea change that's happening. This younger generation that's entering the voting population, that's entering running for office for the first time, that's entering running organizations, grassroots groups, they see things differently. And that was not there when I was coming up. That's going to be a huge shift. So for me, when it comes to Biden and Trump, I'm going to vote for Biden because I don't have time right now to deal with Trump.
Andrea Chalupa (21:17.294)
And my whole focus is on this next generation that's coming up that's going to create an all new status quo, one that humanizes Palestinians, one that I hope to God humanizes Ukrainians and doesn't fall toward to that far left edge lord Russia today, ND news trap that Russian is information like Stalay for those on the far left. So my hope is really on the new generation that's coming up, the millennials, the Gen Z.
Yes, you Gen Xers are among us too, obviously, but there is a big shift that is happening in this country. There's a greater call to empathy, a greater call to collective healing. And I worry about the work we're going to be deprived of, the potential we're going to lose, the strain we're all going to be under if we cannot fully focus on that work because we're so busy having Trump terrorize us. Because remember, the guy's a sociopath and what sociopaths like to do, what dictators like to do, is they like to inhabit you. They like to make sure that they own you throughout from the center. Do you remember throughout the Trump years when we'd wake up, when the first thing we'd do in the morning was we would check our phone to be like, what the hell did he do today? Like we were consumed by it. The violence that he was inflicting on us, because every day it was just six scandals, like a fire hose of scandals. It was all deliberately engineered to grind us down and overwhelm us in a strategy that Stephen Bannon calls flooding the zone with shit.
And so we're going to be pressed under that weight by them while trying to go about our regular work and trying to help and heal and protect those we love. And I'm telling you all, we don't have time for that, especially with the ticking clock of the climate crisis. And it's been a God awful time, especially when it comes to Gaza, especially with Netanyahu getting excited to now invade Rafa to please himself and his terrorist base. It's really getting ugly out there. And yes, Biden's not doing enough. And yes, we need to make this time for him like what what LBJ's final years were with people camped outside the White House, putting the pressure on because that's the only way we can force change. But we all have to unite in voting for Biden because we do not have those resources. We simply cannot fight on all these same fronts together. So I'm calling on everyone as angry as we are, use the rage to fight locally, use the rage to promote a new empathetic culture that we need across the board and just keep the Nazis out of bed. Because if Trump gets in the White House, Netanyahu is in the White House and Putin is in the White House. And I see a very tough road ahead for all of us.
Terrell Starr:
I definitely feel your sentiments there, particularly with the fact that I don't think people really appreciate how incredibly close this election is going to be. And I look at this one from the perspective of black voters. Usually when I would cover this type of story, I would think, okay, there'll be enough black support to come out to make up for any of these issues, any issue that comes up. I'm always the person to think that. However, it's a very different dynamic right now because of what's happening in Gaza and being from Detroit, Michigan, born and raised. And I think about that 250 plus thousand Arab American community that's in Michigan or, and how aggrieved they feel in the lack of empathy that they've gotten. As much as I'm going to support Biden, I supported Biden in this already made up primary when it was time to vote on April 2nd, and I'm going to vote for him again without a doubt. We have to really think about how we got into this position and how we got into this position touches on many of the things that you discussed, namely having these centrist types of people who we think will save us. And there were more progressive people who would have gone down the proper route of appreciating Gaza and Ukraine, but we needed a white man to save us. And I know this because so many black people told me this when I was on the campaign trail in 2020.
There were a lot of people who favored Elizabeth Warren. There are people who favored Julian Castro, a number of other folks who would be more forward thinking and more amiable to a new outlook on how to see the world and how to really respond to this demographic change that we're experiencing right now. But we chose a safe bet and a safe bet definitely got us something better than Trump. That's without a doubt. We know that. But moving forward.
Terrell Starr (26:04.622)
Even if Biden wins, I'm not sure if many people will learn the lesson that you can't keep bringing on these types of centrist, middle of the ground Democrats as safe bets, because as we see right now, the safe bet is no longer as safe as we thought that it would be. So that's really something that we really need to think about, because the Republicans are saying, we're going to get the most far right extremist person, that we can think because they recognize power. They recognize the power of their whiteness. They see the fact that they are, they feel like their whiteness is being attacked and is being devalued and they can easily galvanize around that. Whereas with the Democrats, you have to think about black voters. You have to think about the Latinx community. You have to think about the Asian community. You have to think about women's rights. You have to think about LGBT communities and that requires someone and now you have to think about the Arab American community and rightfully so. If you decide that you're going to be a president for everybody you have to be empathetic to everyone and Joe Biden is just not emotionally constructed to be that person. I knew this when I voted for him to be clear because I saw the choices binary in 2020. I saw the choices binary in 2016. I knew that Hillary Clinton was not a particularly empathetic person to Palestinians. I also know that John Kirby, the person who cried tears about Ukraine, doesn't give a fuck about Palestinians because there were no tears shed over those thousands of children that were killed because he doesn't care about them. I know this. But the other option is so binary that we have to pick someone who is better than Trump, but is essentially a heartless, empathetic less individual to people who are not Palestinian. We also have to keep in mind that with Biden, that this was the same person who led a publicly, nationally televised humiliation of Anita Hill. Helping Clarence Thomas.
Andrea Chalupa (28:29.102)
Who is one of the most corrupt members of the Supreme Court. Look at all of ProPublica's reporting on that.
Terrell Starr:
Right. Folks, this is who this man is and he only changed because he was forced to. It is a knock on him. I was gonna say, there's no knock on Joe Biden. It is. Okay. We had better options, but we were scared and we chose to galvanize around the white man that made us feel safe. And my question to all of us in hindsight and moving into the future.
Do we feel safe now? Is this the type of safety that we want to feel going into the next election, dealing with this middle of the ground person who doesn't fully reflect the empathetic vigor and attitude that this democratic coalition requires? Do we feel safe with that moving forward? I think we really need to self-reflect on the type of leaders that we choose to lead this party. And it's not many of the brand names that are going around right now. And I'll leave that there.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yeah, I mean, I was an Elizabeth Warren supporter. I endorsed her on the show. I made hundreds of phone calls for her. And I heard again and again out in all of these states, I was making phone calls to voters and they would say, I love Elizabeth Warren. I want Elizabeth Warren, but to be safe, I'm going for Biden. And here we are and Biden's barely eking through. So I want to play for everyone the trailer of the documentary Terrell and I watched on Friday called Bad Faith based on Ann Nelson's book, The Shadow Network about the far right's long game in dismantling our democracy from within. So we'll play that trailer now.
Bad Faith Trailer (30:16.494)
Everything can be reduced to right and wrong. Make no mistake about it. We are talking about Christianizing America. God has given us, we will allow no one to take away. The Supreme Court has overturned Roe v. Wade. I'm so happy! We will make America great again.
Bad Faith trailer:
Christian nationalism uses religion to justify all kinds of evil. Christian nationalism has been a political tool for centuries. It has nothing to do with Christianity. It's about power and politics. The goal is to enshrine Christian identity as the law of the land. To reclaim the United States for God. You can't take over society unless you take over the seven pillars. And they've gone one by one to do it.
We want total war. We are the Christian Taliban. We need to force the people to believe what we believe. When the government is in the hands of godly men, it is good. But in the hands of all others, it is evil.
Andrea Chalupa (31:27.406)
All right, so what's core to this documentary is Project 2025 by the Heritage Foundation, which is a big old plan to do a mass purge of the federal government under a Republican president, whether it's Trump or somebody else. And as part of Project 2025, the goal is no separation of powers. All power goes to the president. The president directly controls the Department of Justice and the FBI, using it against his quote unquote enemies like me and Terrell.
The military can be used on any US citizen for the Insurrection Act. Again, indie podcasters like us. The goal is for any Republican president to implement this plan, not just Trump. So should Trump not win in 2024, they will keep trying. What were your thoughts on this documentary, Terrell, about the rise of Christian nationalism and how well -funded they are and organized? And I want to point out there's been reporting, by Gabe Sherman in Vanity Fair that Trump's campaign in 2024 is a well-oiled machine because the man himself is busy with all of his lawsuits and the professionals, the campaign professionals can focus and do their jobs without Trump's crazy interference. And so we have an authoritarian presidential campaign that is smoothly moving along. That's how you see Trump with this disciplined messaging trying to gaslight independent voters into thinking he doesn't want a federal abortion ban. Of course he absolutely does. Trump is a Christian nationalist through and through as bad faith shows. What were your feelings in watching that documentary?
Terrell Starr:
It tells me that Trump really doesn't give a damn about faith and neither do the Christian nationalists who finance and cheerlead for him. I consider myself to be Christian. In fact, I'm a product of an HBCU. Many of the historically black colleges around this country, most of them in the South, were started by newly freed enslaved people and white evangelicals and black evangelicals. So there is a period in this country where evangelicalism was not this very kind of, well, I can't say it never was, but there are times when white evangelicalism, and black evangelicals work together and Dr. William Barber, who's a key person in this documentary, talks about this in his writings. And so it shows you how much of a weapon faith can be is the first thing and how easily you can monetize it in a capitalist structure and how capitalism can corrupt anything and anyone. It also reminds me of the same playbook that Putin uses. I call it the political Trinity where you get the far right, the state and the church. And we know that in Putin's Russia, the Orthodox Church is pretty much an arm of the FSB. We understand that the church here in the United States, the white evangelical church is an arm of right -wing Republican extremism and another critical thing too we have to think about when we think about white evangelicals is there is a population shift here. Keep in mind that they're not just white evangelicals, they're black evangelicals. I know many of them. William Barber, he considers himself to be an evangelical. By the way, that's another thing. He says that he's an evangelical. And also keep in mind that there are a lot of Asian Americans who consider themselves to be evangelical in the next upcoming decades, this country is going to be majority non -white and a lot of these people are evangelical and they're going to help to redefine what it means to be an evangelical. And so what a lot of these evangelicals see in my view goes back to their whiteness being devalued and their whiteness being snuffed out. They have a siege mentality. And so the bottom line from this documentary for me is that, we have to be able to fight back with the same type of vigor and all stakes, putting all your chips on the table the way that they do. There's no democratic alternative or no democratic response to anything that these white evangelicals are doing from a financial standpoint, from a talking points perspective, and from an organizing perspective at that scale. And there are people like LaTosha Brown, we definitely got to have her on the show, that could talk about the organizing part.
Andrea Chalupa
Yeah, [LaTosha Brown from] Black Voters Matter.
Terrell Starr:
If we had people like Latasha Brown organizing, I trust her. I think that with her, we'd be great, but it's not enough of her because these larger white structures within the Democratic Party are not investing in her because if we really want to be honest about it, they have their own racism that they have to overcome. It may not be Trumpian, but it's still racism within this Democratic Party. And so until we are able to really come together as a very diverse party and develop a sense of what it means to be universally empathetic, which means that with the Palestinians, we need to call for a ceasefire. With the Ukrainians, we need to give them every type of weaponry they need in order to defend themselves, because that's the most progressive thing that you can do is to preserve life. And if that means defending yourself, then do it.
That also means having a self -reflective perspective about our role in Haiti and also thinking about the Congo as well and thinking about what does it mean to be restorative in our global policies. And until we get that type of restorative community-based empathy that reflects the Democratic Party that exists and elects someone who shares that, right? Because it wasn't Biden, and it sure as hell wasn't Hillary Clinton, then we're going to always be in a situation where we're constantly trying to get our breath because we're under equipped to deal with the juggernaut and the devil that's before us because we're dealing with the devil right now. We're dealing with the devil and we refuse to go to the lake and get the holy water to throw on this devil because we're not recognizing that we're dealing with a demon here right now. And once we galvanize around that fact, then we'll get somewhere. But until then, I'm not optimistic.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yeah, you got to fight holy war with holy war. No, the reality is, they're digging in their heels. They're in it for the long game. And it's larger than Trump. That's what the documentary Bad Faith makes clear. And one thing that's happening now as we speak, you have Bobby Kennedy Jr., who's been denounced by the Kennedy family, rightfully so, running as a third
Andrea Chalupa (38:34.446)
party candidate, there was this damning clip by his New York state director for his campaign, Rita Palmer, giving a presentation and proudly declaring that the entire plan of Bobby Kennedy Jr.'s campaign is to get rid of Biden, to get rid of Biden and to get Trump in. They're trying to siphon votes off from Biden in these key states on top of everything else we have working against us, including a far right media echo chamber of disinformation and the Kremlin throwing everything they can at our election and so on. So I want to play a clip now of Rita Palmer laying it all out there.
Clip of Rita Palmer, RFK Jr.’s Campaign Manager:
“Bobby's moving the blues on his own. If the Republicans accepted the fact that New York, Maryland, Illinois, California, New Jersey, Connecticut, most of the Northeast is going to go blue, why wouldn't we put our vote to Bobby and at least get rid of Biden and get those 28 electoral votes in New York. The card's a little wrong. It says 26 electoral votes. Give those 28 electoral votes to Bobby rather than to Biden, thereby reducing Biden's 270. And we all know how that works, right? 270 wins the election. If you don't get to 270, if nobody gets to 270, then Congress picks the president. So who are they going to pick? Who are they going to pick? If it's a Republican Congress, they'll pick Trump. So we're rid of Biden either way. Does everybody follow that? Okay.”
Andrea Chalupa:
And then on top of that, you have Michael Flynn, who was Obama's disgraced former head of the Defense Intelligence Agency, who had infamously reassured Obama that the Russians wouldn't invade Ukraine. And then when they did, he convinced Obama, he was part of the chorus saying that, don't do anything about Crimea, just let it go. And Flynn was seen as certifiably crazy by Obama, cautioned Trump against hiring him. Of course, Trump hired him because Michael Flynn, cause plays the role of a general. He wears his military uniform. He was front and center of the fascist rally of the RNC in Ohio in the 2016 election. He was front and center in laying the groundwork.
Andrea Chalupa (40:52.43)
leading all these rallies in the lead up to the January 6th violent attempt to overthrow our democracy and so on. And he's been very much a soldier for the cause. And he's right now on a 33 city propaganda tour for a documentary making him into a martyr. Because that's what these guys do. They break laws, just like Paul Manafort called his propaganda book some disinformation name, like “Political Prisoner,” right? So here's a clip of Flynn telling us what he's up to, what he wants to do.
Clip of Michael Flynn:
“I mean, there is a spiritual war and there is a political war and they are going on. They're going on.”
Andrea Chalupa:
Keep in mind that Michael Flynn is going across this country right now telling Christian nationalist crowds the same thing I tell you, Gaslit Nation listeners, which is we need to fight locally. We need to change our local government. We need to flip the power in the states where we live, fight locally in our community, because that is how you create a revolution from the ground up and you hack away at corruption at its root.
When I'm always talking about giving our money to groups like the States Project and Run for Something, Michael Flynn is on that same mission, but on the far right Christian nationalist extremist side of things. So what we here do at Gaslit Nation for the greater good, for greater empathy, for greater healing, to get people who are empathetic and science driven into positions of power across this land, Michael Flynn is trying to do that with his Christian nationalists.
And that's why it's so extraordinarily important that we all stay engaged in this fight and you listen and heed the words of the Gaslit Nation 2024 Survival Guide.
Andrea Chalupa (42:32.942)
The election is here and it's happening and it's bigger than Biden. We have the chance to hack away at corruption at the root by building our power at the all -important state level where crucial quality of life issues from voting rights to environmental protections to LGBTQ plus rights and more are decided. Karl Rove ran the same strategy for the GOP during the Obama years.
laying the groundwork for Trump to come to power in 2016. Now we're reversing this dangerous trend, securing key victories in swing states to protect our elections and advance progressive laws in states like Michigan and Wisconsin, yes, even Wisconsin. Another world is possible when we unite and build together. Here's how. Join me, Andrea, at State Fair, a giving circle that collects small dollar donations among friends and family.
to build big power in key states. If 1 ,000 Gaslight Nation listeners set up a $5 recurring monthly donation, that's $5 ,000 we're sending to turn so -called red states purple and so -called purple states blue. Some of the races we've supported won by only a few votes. And we flipped the house in Pennsylvania, flipped the entire house, all right? Elected like 12 new people, massive.
And they have a crazy, extra crazy Republican Party in Pennsylvania. And that's what we did together through States Project. Thank you. Your $5 monthly donation will make a huge difference. Join me and my friends at State Fair today. You can sign up at GaslitNationPod.com. Just click on the 2024 Survival Guide on our homepage. Step number two, are there any young people in your life, Gen Z or younger? Give them the gift of the excellent book, Run for Something.
A real talk guide to fixing the system yourself. It helps people of all ages run for office. So if you're thinking of running for office, be sure to read this inspiring and practical guide. Both the book and the organization Run for Something. Encourage, recruit, and train young people to run for office and flex their power. Inspire a young person and anyone you love and trust with empathy in their hearts and science in their minds to run for office today. Number three, help.
Andrea Chalupa (44:58.606)
The Helpers. State Bridges is a sister district action network program in which volunteers from across the country fundraise for organizations doing year -round power building in key battleground states like Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin. State Bridges supports organizations engaging communities underrepresented at the polls like mothers of color, rural voters, and Latinx voters.
Sign up to attend a virtual fundraiser and donate to help the helpers at state bridges. Number four, write letters to voters in swing districts with Vote Forward. Check out any of their easy letter writing campaigns that have already started and write letters as you listen to Gaslit Nation. We'll be keeping you company. Most importantly, number five, check your own voter registration now at Election Protection site.
Make sure you're registered and check in with your family and friends to confirm their voter registration too. Commit to helping five people in your life make a plan to vote and bring them along to a Gaslight Nation phone bank this fall because the only ones coming to save us is us. Grassroots power is the most reliable power we have left.
Andrea Chalupa (46:26.702)
Our discussion continues and you can get access to that by signing up at the Truth Teller level and higher on Patreon at patreon .com forward slash gaslit. Support the essential work of the World Central Kitchen, whose aid workers were killed in Gaza trying to feed Palestinians trapped there in the famine genocide deliberately engineered by Israel's government. Give what you can to donate .wck .org. That's donate .wck .org.
contact your reps in Congress, and demand a permanent ceasefire now, and that they release a public statement if they haven't already, demanding an end to Netanyahu and his coalition of terrorists' genocide of Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. To get Ukraine urgently needed humanitarian aid, join me in donating to Razem4Ukraine at razem4ukraine.org. To help civilians and refugees in conflict zones, donate to Doctors Without Borders at doctorswithoutborders .org.
And if you want to help critically endangered orangutans already under pressure from the palm oil industry, donate to the Orangutan Project at the orangutanproject .org. Gaslit Nation is produced by Andrea Chalupa, our production manager is Nicolas Torres, and our associate producer is Carlin Daigle. Our episodes are edited by Nicolas Torres and our Patreon exclusive content is edited by Carlin Daigle. If you like what we do, leave us a review on iTunes, it helps us reach more listeners. And check out our Patreon.
It keeps us going. Original music in Gaslit Nation is produced by David Whitehead, Martin Wissenberg, Nick Farr, Damian Ariaga, and Karlyn Daigle. Our logo design was donated to us by Hamish Smythe of the New York based firm, Order. Thank you so much, Hamish. Gaslit Nation would like to thank our supporters at the producer level on Patreon and higher. Lily Wachowski, Work For Better Prep For Trouble, John Schoenthaler, Ellen McGirt, Larry Gassan,
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Andrea Chalupa (48:55.022)
DL Singfield, Nicole Spear, Jans Ostrob Rasmussen, Sarah Gray, Diana Gallagher, Leah Campbell, Jared Lombardo, Anne Marshall, and Tanya Chalupa. Thank you all for your support of the show. We could not make Gaslight Nation without you.