The Save Democracy Challenge
Meet the patriots of the Gaslit Nation 2020 Save Democracy Challenge! We speak to superheroes who organized, stayed engaged, and did what they could wherever they were, often facing threats and other pressures, to help save our democracy in 2020. Their efforts matter, made a difference, and planted powerful seeds for protecting their communities, and therefore our country.
We're going to get through the difficult years ahead by fighting for our communities, and that security on the local level helps secure our democracy on a national level. So never forget that we need you, our communities need you, our country needs you, and if you don't know where to start, listen to the inspiring people in this discussion to learn how to help wherever you are.
We're going to hold another Gaslit Nation Save Democracy Challenge where we call on our listeners to stay engaged and do what they can where they can to help get out the vote in the 2022 midterms. Look out for that as we get closer to yet another make-it-or-break-it election in our lifetimes. No matter how dark things get, refuse to abandon each other, and stay and fight to ensure that a new America rises from the ashes of this time of rapid change and uncertainty.
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[Intro theme music]
Sarah Kendzior:
I'm Sarah Kendzior, the author of the bestsellers, The View from Flyover Country and Hiding in Plain Sight and of the upcoming book, They Knew, out in 2022.
Andrea Chalupa:
I'm Andrea Chalupa, a journalist and filmmaker and the writer and producer of the journalistic thriller, Mr. Jones, about Stalin's genocide famine in Ukraine.
Sarah Kendzior:
And this is Gaslit Nation, a podcast covering corruption in the United States and rising autocracy around the world.
Andrea Chalupa:
We are excited to introduce you to the winners of the Gaslit Nation 2020 Save Democracy Challenge. We called on our listeners to join us in doing whatever we could, wherever we were, to stay engaged and help get out the vote in the 2020 election. We made calls, we organized, we helped support each other through a hellish year. And guess what? We're going to do it all again in 2022 for the midterms. We must hold the line. We have no choice. This next big election and the one after it are make-it-or-break-it elections for our democracy. The outcome of the midterms less than one year from now will help determine whether we'll have a free and fair election in 2024 or yet another coup. Republicans are gearing up for that coup, so we must stop them—as we always do—by staying engaged, refusing to abandon each other, and doing what we can, where we can, to help get out the vote.
Andrea Chalupa:
You can start now by checking out the Gaslit Nation Action Guide on gaslitnationpod.com to join communities and/or donate to help protect our democracy. There's plenty of organizations there that need your support. Every little bit helps and we need you. So, without further ado, here are the winners of the Gaslit Nation 2020 Save Democracy Challenge, chosen at random from all the entries we received across the country of people tweeting at us about the ways they were working to help save our democracy. You can be on this show if you join us next year. And keep in mind when you listen to this conversation, we recorded it about a decade ago at the start of… earlier on in 2021. So just keep that in mind. And this was all of us getting together to process surviving 2020, and the hellscape that it was.
Andrea Chalupa:
Today, we are with a group of Gaslit Nation listeners coming together to process the hell that we all lived through in 2020, and then the big Georgia race. We, during the big year that was 2020, congratulations to all if you hung in there and fought the good fight in 2020, and the Georgia election’s two Senate races and getting out the vote and staying engaged, you helped save the world from Trump tyranny and that matters a lot. So, congratulations to you. Gaslit Nation was founded in order to create a community, to help us all stay engaged in the big 2018 midterm elections. And we are going to, of course, keep the energy going because we have no choice. We must fight for our lives right now. Things are just getting worse. The big Trump machine has broken off into a countless army of little Trumps who are learning from their mistakes and improving in their mission to dismantle our democracy and bring authoritative rule in America, because money, money, money, money, money. It just comes down to greed and money, at the cost of countless innocent lives.
Andrea Chalupa:
And as we all know with the 2022 election coming up just around the corner, if you work in organizing, everyone needs to be fighting for the 2022 midterms now, invest even small amounts into races, organizing groups like Verified Action Now, because that money needs to start coming in now to help hire people to fight the good fight as soon as possible. We have a lot stacked up against us in 2022, including a very active effort to suppress the vote. So the nightmare scenario is that Republicans take that Congress in 2022, so then if a Democrat wins in 2024, they're gonna refuse to certify the election results for the presidential election in 2024. The Big Lie has taken over the Republican Party. You see that with what happened to Liz Chaney getting replaced by a Trump lackey who's willing to push the mythology of the Big Lie. So the stakes have never been higher. And in fact, the situation is getting worse. Looking back so we can look forward, we have some wonderful folks on the show who committed to staying engaged, to fight for their democracy. We're gonna go down the list of our wonderful guests for today, starting with Sarah May Seward of White Lake, Michigan. Welcome to Gaslit Nation, Sarah.
Sarah May Seward:
I live in White Lake, Michigan in Michigan's 44th district. That means I have Michigan Representative Matthew Maddock as my rep, and also Jim Runestad as my Senator. It is really rough. In 2020, I ran for White Lake Township Trustee in a township that has not had a Democrat sitting on the board in over 40 years. I was able to pull in a lot of Trump supporters and Republican supporters, but not enough due to COVID. So, I lost, but I did pretty well and I'm planning on running for something again.
Sarah Kendzior:
That's awesome.
Andrea Chalupa:
Fantastic. Great. We'll talk more about that. Alright. And next up, we have Daniel from Las Vegas, Nevada. Welcome to Gaslit Nation.
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, last year as with many people, it was like the most I've ever been involved politically. I was listening to a lot of podcasts. I was able to work from home. My family is very conservative and they're all Trump supporters. So that kind of lit my fire a little bit to get involved and take action. I enjoyed text banking the most, but I also try to like make little infographs for my friends and family that ask questions on certain topics. So, that's kind of what I did last year.
Andrea Chalupa:
And now up next is Jeff Quiggle of Plano, Texas.
Jeff Quiggle:
Hey, y'all. Thanks so much for having me. I'm thrilled to be here with the both of you and I’ve been a huge fan since the very beginning. This past year, obviously, we were hugely active. I live in Collin County, which is one of the most hotly contested counties, really, in the country. We actually had a lot of attention from national—even international—press last year coming into the November election. And we really moved the needle quite a lot. You know, Hillary Clinton lost Collin County to Trump by like 55% to 38%. We added 100,000 votes in November. Biden got over 230,000 votes. Prior to that, Clinton had 139,000 in 2016. Unfortunately it wasn't quite enough, but it closed the gap from 51, you know, down to 51 to 46%. So, pretty good results. Not quite what we wanted. We just keep working on it. For the runoffs, the Georgia runoff, I actually was working more with Common Defense, which is a progressive veterans organization. We sent out collectively over 400,000 texts and phone calls for the runoff. We think that that moved the needle by about 12,000 votes in the election, which obviously, in something that close, was a critical factor in taking back those two seats and taking back the Senate.
Andrea Chalupa:
Great. Next up, we have Mark Zacharda of Owosso, Michigan. Welcome to the show.
Mark Zacharda:
Yes, thank you. Honored to be here. I always joke, I'm one of six farmers in the state who are Democrats. So, sadly in my profession, farmers are, you know, the vast majority are conservative and vote Republican, but I've been a Democrat for a long time. And I was a teacher for a while in Virginia. Then I moved back home and worked on the farm with my dad. After the 2016 election, you know, my wife and I looked at each other and we're like, We gotta do something more here, become more active in politics. We got active in the local Democratic Party. So we're in Shiawassee County, which is in mid-Michigan, just North and East a little bit of Lansing. And it's a very rural, very red, of course been gerrymandered into a strong Republican seat. We’re Michigan's fourth district. We have empty suit John Molinar as a US Representative in Congress, and far-right State Senator Tom Barrett. Sarah may know that name, being a Michigan person. I call him MAGA Tom. He's horrible.
Mark Zacharda:
But yeah, we fought our butts off and I got into party leadership in 2018, you know, just passed out tons of signs and took in a record amount of donations. Of course, all of our local candidates lost. It felt like getting punched in the gut election morning when it wasn't called for Biden and also, I looked and saw that like every one of our local candidates lost. It was just a red wave of every Trump voter out from under the rock and just swept our whole county. So, it was kind of devastating, but I'm actually the chair of the party now and we're still working. And one thing that a friend of mine said, she's big into politics and ran a local campaign and she talked about how, like, you know, we moved the needle a little bit for Biden. And even though Trump won our county “bigly”, as he might say, we were still a lot of Democratic votes which helped tip the state, which I can look back on and take some satisfaction.
Andrea Chalupa:
Exactly. And now we have Emily DeDakis. And tell us where you are, Emily.
Emily DeDakis:
Hey. I live in Belfast in Northern Ireland, but I grew up in Georgia’s sixth district, so this was an interesting election to watch. Most people, kinda, where I live, don't know much about Georgia. People were like, Did you grow up… Where'd you grow up in Georgia? And I'm like, uh, name any two counties that you know from watching CNN for the last 36 hours and that's where I grew up.
Andrea Chalupa:
<laugh> Wow.
Emily DeDakis:
So I was over here in Ireland making calls mostly to Georgia, and texts. And then also what I thought was really fascinating was I did a bit of work on the ballot curing with the Georgia Democratic Party and that was something completely new to me. I’d done door to door canvassing in different places in the country before I moved over here. So I missed that being on the ground in person kind of connection, which I think was kind of hard for people to get, even if they were on the right continent. But I just learned a lot about the nitty gritty stuff that goes into making every single election tick, which is quite fascinating.
Andrea Chalupa:
So I'm gonna start with you, Emily and stay on Northern Ireland for a bit, because I think one of the questions we get a lot when we ask people to please stay engaged and fight for your democracy wherever you may live, Americans abroad go like, How can I make phone calls? How can I send texts? So could you give advice for people living abroad, how they can stay active in politics in the US?
Emily DeDakis:
Yeah, definitely. I've lived here for 15 years, but I'm not a citizen, so I can't vote here. I'm involved in politics here to some extent, but I think, you know, I still send my absentee ballots home. So, that's one of the ways I've always stayed engaged. I'm actually a DC voter, so, love to see some statehood <laugh> That’s on my mind too, but yeah, honestly Democrats Abroad is really helpful. I'm DC statehood party registered, but still I keep in touch with them and I've kept in touch with the consulate and things like that in terms of events and stuff to keep connected. Honestly it's staying up late. You have to be willing to stay up late, is the main reason, or the main way, that you can stay involved. So I was able to make calls using Google Voice and online dial up. The software that they were using for the Democratic Party, I was able to use that.
Emily DeDakis:
So it was just a matter of making calls until, you know, one or two in the morning instead of nine or ten at night. But it's really actually quite strange because I felt like after I'd done so much calling—I made like over a thousand calls—and at the end of the election, it was like coming out of a virtual reality machine that I had been sitting in. It was like taking the goggles off and it was like, Whoa, I was here all along but my head was really, really embedded back home. So it was a surreal experience. I mean, you can decide how deep a dive you want to do in terms of keeping involved, but it felt so important. I think a couple other people had said they hadn't been involved as volunteers before and I just couldn't not this time. It's a logistical decision I suppose, as well.
Andrea Chalupa:
And how did you feel as a Georgian seeing your turn blue twice, and the second time with two Georgian senators, the first Jewish senator from Georgia and the first Black senator from Georgia. How did that feel, the Georgia miracle twice?
Emily DeDakis:
Completely unbelievable, honestly. But, I mean, I say unbelievable, but to be honest, it's overpowering to understand the impact that voter suppression had had really indirectly, like in ways that people almost didn't recognize. Some people I was talking to on the phone were older African American voters who were saying like, I don't usually vote and I'm going for it this time, you know, and just realizing how much long, long term effort had gone into beating out the sort of assumption that people could make a difference and that they could be represented. I saw my own state as a red wash, yet I knew who I had grown up with. I knew that people represented all sorts of different views. I knew how purple it was, absolutely. But you still have this perception that there's absolutely no chance for something like that to happen. So to see Stacey Abrams and Fair Fight make that immense voter registration campaign… That itself made the difference, was just telling people, giving people not permission, but just that reminder that they have impact, that they represent an enormous section of the state as well. It remains purple. But it was, yeah, it was very emotional.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yeah. It was the power of long term investment in the long term fight in smart organizing. And we had such a huge euphoric high. And then the next day was the violent attempted coup on our democracy.
Emily DeDakis:
Yeah, that was terrifying. I mean, I was watching, I was actually working on the ballot cure while I was watching the confirmation of the electoral votes and I thought they were just taking a break, I think, as everyone did. And I walked in the kitchen and was like making a snack and put down my spreadsheet. I was transcribing provisional ballots so that they could call people to carry the ballots and my boyfriend walked in and he's like, “Um, there's a bunch of people climbing into the Capitol.” I was like, “Really?” <laugh> There were a couple of experiences like while I was working on the ballot cure, they were literally counting ballots from John Lewis' district, which is the fifth I think, and then the same thing kind of happening in January. So it felt like a three month long siege in itself, I think, working on both of those elections.
Andrea Chalupa:
And I think it's good for us to also share in this interview where we were at that moment when we learned what was happening at the Capitol, because that was a 9/11 moment. We all sort of remember that moment when the towers fell, like, What do you mean the towers are gone? They're gone. And so it's just, if you could also share that moment, because we wanna keep a record of that.
Emily DeDakis:
And I don't know if people actually saw it the same way, if that makes sense. I'd be interested if other people who were in the States, how that felt. I found myself being deeply affected, like, you know, having grief-like symptoms, I would say, for weeks after and like sort of feel like I had to justify feeling like absolute shite to people <laugh> and almost not quite connecting myself why I was so traumatized by having seen that. It was just intriguing that it was so… People were trying to rationalize it or downplay it, whether it was to stay sane or to gaslight, you know, there were different reasons for that, but I found that really difficult to kind of articulate to people.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yeah, without question. Sarah and I struggled with our own grief privately and publicly on the show, and the day after the Capitol attack when everything really sunk in throughout that day… Because the day itself was full of shock. It's like, What do you mean they're in Pelosi's office? And so the next day, it really hits you, the horror of it hits you. And I took my daughter to the park—my toddler, like I always do—and normally my little girl is super adventurous. She goes head first down slides. I have to chase after her and that's my workout for the week. But the day after the Capitol attack, she was incredibly clingy. She would not leave me. Two other parents at the park with toddler said the same thing. Parents were talking, were just saying the children must sense our own fear and anxiety, as much as we're trying to be strong and put up a brave front. But it's clear from whatever we're putting out in the world, our energy, that mom and dad don't feel safe.
Andrea Chalupa:
And it's hard to hide that when you feel like, on such a fundamental level, you've been violated. This is a game changer now. And unlike 9/11, obviously with 9/11 the country united. And now, because of this terrorist attack, we’re divided because one side committed it, and one side is proud of it, and one side is incredibly guilty and seeing a lot of their friends, families, loved ones, political leaders arrested. So it's this really horrific time that we're still living in of massive gaslighting. Sarah, do you wanna comment on that?
Sarah Kendzior:
Yeah. I mean, just briefly, you know, as everybody who listens to this show knows, we knew that the Capitol attack was coming in advance—that's why we announced a special about it in advance—because the perpetrators, they told us that. And so I expected this. I was horrified by it, but I was kind of watching it upstairs, alone on the computer. And I didn't realize my two children, you know, were 10 and 13 at the time, were watching it downstairs. And then my husband had joined them because he had seen what had happened and they were just sitting there shell shocked and just very, very upset. And my son, I'll never forget this, you know, he is 10 and he looked at me and he said, “mommy, I know this is a historical moment, but I don't wanna watch this. I want to turn this off.”
Sarah Kendzior:
And I'm like, of course, you know, of course you can turn this off. And they were teary eyed. And you know, these are kids… They're my kids. They've watched me cover all this stuff. They've watched me get threats and I tried to protect them from that as much as possible. And they're also St. Louis kids. They're used to life being kind of rough. They were absolutely traumatized by it. This is something I think a lot people in the United States don't talk about, is the effect of this on children in that dynamic. And then the other thing, I was talking about this with my daughter actually this morning, was my fear during the inauguration that Biden or Harris or somebody else might get shot.
Sarah Kendzior:
I was very, very afraid to let my kids watch the inauguration—I kept wishing it was virtual—because I was afraid it would happen again. It was clear that we had a massive security problem and that's a terrifying feeling for a parent to have. And it's terrifying that it's still out there. They haven't done a real investigation, they haven't done hearings, they haven't held the bigshots accountable. They've been going for low hanging fruit, and so all that's lingering out there. Obviously the pandemic is the leading cause of national trauma, international trauma. But I think this unresolved tension about this threat to our Capitol, to our country, from within, and the pride they take in making that threat, is also a source of great trauma and sadness for children and parents alike.
Andrea Chalupa:
I remember living in New York City for an internship after 9/11 and all the New Yorkers I was befriending had to tell me where they were that day, what that experience was like. And I feel like a lot of the conversations we're having on Gaslit Nation and will continue to have is about the terrorist attack on January 6th, 2021, because it's something we have to continue to keep processing, and the gaslighting around it is part of the ongoing abuse, and the continuing threat as well. So I want to turn now to Texas, because I have myself made a ton of calls for Texas, even though we had Michigan and Pennsylvania on the line as potentially being very close states in 2020. I followed Beto O’Rourke and the big dream of finally turning Texas blue and I invested my time there. And there was a lot of talk of whether that was a smart move or not in 2020 with so many states needing our help. So I wanna ask Jeff, what is the deal with Texas? When will Texas be finally blue? If ever?
Jeff Quiggle:
That's a great question. And we ask that question ourselves over and over again. I was involved with Beto’s campaign in 2018 and his brief presidential run. I actually started an organization called Veterans for Beto that supported both his senate run and his presidential run. So, I'm a huge fan of Beto. And actually I think Emily might have said this… It's a long term investment to try to flip these kind of traditionally red states, and thing that you need to understand about Texas is it's really not a red state. It's already a purple state. The city where I live, Plano, we actually voted for Beto in 2018. We voted for Biden last year. And again, because of gerrymandering districts that take these kind of suburban and urban cores and spread those districts out into the rural areas that are far more conservative, that allows Republicans to retain a hold.
Jeff Quiggle:
So of course, voter suppression, like in Georgia, like in other states in the South, like in other states elsewhere, things like voter ID laws, you know, I was watching Georgia—their new law that they recently passed, you know, putting ID laws in place and getting rid of ballot dropboxes for absentee ballots—we've already had those bans in Texas for years. We passed a VID law a few years ago that's very onerous, right? You can vote with, for example, if you don't have a driver's license—which many poor people and people of color don't have—you can vote with a concealed carry permit license, but you can't vote with a student ID, you know, that's not gonna work. So that turns people away. Just until recently, like even in Dallas County, which is very, very blue at this point, you had to actually go to your assigned precinct to vote, which meant that people across the street had to go somewhere entirely different than they did.
Jeff Quiggle:
So just all these sorts of arcane laws made it hard even before 2021. And now we've got a very large package of bills that is about to go to the, they're not out of the Leg yet, but they're about to go, that's gonna further suppress voting, you know, getting rid of…. One of the things that Harris County, which of course is the largest county in Texas, one of the things that Harris County did to try to make sure people could vote in the middle of a pandemic—right?—is they set up these drive through voting in parking garages so that people could come through, and they actually hugely expanded the vote in Harris County. They had multiple lawsuits filed against them by Republican and conservative activists to try to shut that down. They were able to continue but one of the laws, bills that's coming outta the Leg right now is to specifically target no voting in parking garages.
Jeff Quiggle:
You know, you have to vote in a building that has four walls. You can't vote in a building that has a roof, but no walls. And it's like, Really? They're also trying to get rid of… I don't know what other states call it, but here in Texas it’s called the Deputy Voter Registrar Program where anyone that wants to go get the training can be deputized to go register voters. Well, they wanna take that program away so that you would only be able to get registered through the Secretary of State of Texas. And then what's super interesting about that is just yesterday, we learned the current secretary of state is going to have to resign because the Texas Senate, which has to confirm the secretary of state, has refused to confirm her. Mainly we think the consensus is that the 2020 election went way too smooth for these Republicans in the state legislature.
Jeff Quiggle:
They don't like it. They didn't like the fact that all these people are voting. People start to vote… Gosh, they might actually vote against Republicans and they might go out, because Texas is actually a microcosm of Georgia, right? We're Georgia, only bigger. It's the same thing, right? Our cities are blue. Our suburbs are mostly blue. You get out in the rural areas, which is most of the state, and suddenly it gets pretty red. But, you know, that's changing and it's just a constant investment. If y'all aren't careful in Georgia, we’re just gonna go out there and get Stacey Abrams and bring her here. And I think between her and Beto, we can probably get the folks registered to get out the vote and flip the state.
Andrea Chalupa:
So what is the strategy for the way forward in Texas? Is it just, do we just have to a wait for enough people to either move to Texas, or is it just a matter of time, just like Virginia eventually turned blue? Virginia was called very early on election night because now it's just a given that Virginia is blue. So when do you think we're ever going to get Texas there and what a path? What would have to happen for Texas to become the next Virginia?
Jeff Quiggle:
If you listen to Beto, he'll say over and over again that Texas is not so much a red state, it's a non-voting state. And we have a problem with voter registration and voter turnout. Here in Collin County—which, as I said, has been a battleground for a couple years now—we think there's probably 100,000 potential voters who are unregistered. If we got 60,000 people registered, that was more than enough of the 2020 margin so that we can actually start winning these elections here. So the path forward really is voter registration, which of course Beto’s organization, Powered by People is doing. We're doing it at the TDP. Texas Democratic Party is working on that. Part of it is migration. You know, Republicans talk a lot about business friendly Texas, that results in companies moving here.
Jeff Quiggle:
Well, guess what? They're bringing their employees too. And not all those employees are far-right Republicans like they'd wished they were, so that's gonna be part of it. But it's also really countering the gaslighting that goes on. Right? And y'all, you know, Sarah and Andrea, you know this, right? Rural Texans who are overwhelmingly Republican—it's the same in Michigan, it’s the same in Georgia—they voted against their interest, right? What have we seen here in Texas? We've seen healthcare declining in the rural areas because there's not enough money. Like other states, Texas refused to accept the Medicaid expansion, so you've had hospitals closing, you’ve had doctors leaving rural areas. There are some counties in Texas—some of the very rural counties—that might have one doctor or two doctors and no hospitals, right?
Jeff Quiggle:
So if you're out in, say, far west, Texas, and you need to go to a hospital because you've got COVID and you need a ventilator, it's a helicopter ride to Lubbock or to San Antonio or somewhere because you're not gonna get it where you are. So, that's a huge problem. Public school. Rural areas rely on public schools. They don't have access to things like private schools or charter schools. So the more Republicans chop at that, the more folks need to see, Hey, you're voting against your interest. And then finally things like infrastructure. If COVID taught us anything, it's that broadband is infrastructure and if you don't have broadband, you had a hard time getting connected to school, you had a hard time getting connected into the broader entrepreneurship. So getting that infrastructure, including broadband internet, out to those rural areas is something that we can focus on. These are Democratic priorities. These are not Republican priorities. That's what we have to do. So kind of three things, right? Voter registration, voter education, and getting people out to vote.
Andrea Chalupa:
Wow. Okay. And so you think there will be a tipping point where you can come to power in Texas, and by coming to power, you can finally challenge and take on the gerrymandering that's been holding your state hostage?
Jeff Quiggle:
Well, and that's of course the big problem that we're facing right now is the Republicans control the Leg. They're the ones that are going to draw the lines later this year when the census data is available. I think they're gonna have to call a special session in, like, August or September to do that redistricting. We're hoping that the For the People Act comes up and we get some protection at the federal level so that they cannot draw obviously gerrymandered districts that are gonna favor Republicans going forward. You know, we've had that problem here for many years, going back to the early 2000’s, when Tom Delay, he was able to redraw lines kind of out of cycle and really kind of locked in Republican control of the Leg since then. We haven't had a Democratic Leg since, I think, the late ‘90s. So, it's really been a struggle and that's gonna be a huge problem if we don't get some federal help. If they're able to go and redraw these lines with the data that they have now—and Sarah and Andrea, I know you've talked about data and how certain companies have been able to collect that data—it's gonna make it really difficult to overcome, on a district by district perspective, winning the Leg and the State Senate seats that we need to flip the House.
Andrea Chalupa:
So would you say a contributing factor to the voter suppression electoral hostage situation that Texas—a purple state—is currently in is the work of Tom Delay?
Jeff Quiggle:
That was the start, obviously, but the last time that redistricting happened was in 2010 and that got us the current districts that we have, which are, I mean, if you look, I can't show you this, the, I can't share my screen, but if you look at, just go to like Wikipedia and look at the Texas House districts, for example. It's just ridiculous, some of these districts that are drawn. I mean, gerrymandering is almost… I mean, you look at the districts, like for example, Dan Crenshaw, who’s the fun guy down in the Houston area, you know, he's got this district that like goes all the way around Houston, which is a very blue area, but it's been drawn specifically to get those red areas out in the ‘burbs. There's districts in Central Texas that run from San Antonio all the way almost to Dallas because they're pulling in those specific areas that are gonna deliver that Republican district, districts that start in Dallas and go all the way to the East Texas border with Louisiana, trying to, again, bring in those rural areas that are gonna counteract those pesky people of color in Dallas that are gonna vote for Democrats.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yeah, so we're up against decades of work that Republicans have done to get us here. And so it's not going to happen overnight. We're not gonna undo gerrymandering and voter suppression laws. That's why it's so important to have all of you together here with us and keep having these conversations and keep getting out the vote because we have to stay engaged, election cycle after election cycle. Midterm elections are just as important as presidential elections, and we have no choice but to fight like hell and run for office. So, Jeff, you started your own—I wanna move on to other folks but I have one more question for you—you started your own group, the vets group. Could you talk a bit about what ignited you to become active and what advice do you have to start your own organizations and build your own thing?
Jeff Quiggle:
When Mark was talking about his origin story, I mean, it was almost exactly the same thing. You know, I really was never an activist prior to 2016 and it was the same thing. You know, my wife and I woke up that morning after the election and we just felt sick. So we looked at each other and said, Alright, let's get to work. And we just kinda went from there and just got more involved. The first thing I ever did is I went to the protest at Dallas-Fort Worth Airport when the Muslim ban was put into place. I was out there with a few, I don't know, I can't remember how many hundreds of people were there, but supporting the folks who were trying to get outta the airport. From there, I ended up getting involved with Beto.
Jeff Quiggle:
I went to the Democratic State Convention. That's where I met some folks that encouraged me to get involved with his campaign, figured out what we could do. We started that group. One of the things that I think it's important to understand—I don't know if there's other veterans on this call—there's this myth that veterans are all conservatives and veterans are all Trump supporters and that's absolutely not true. Certainly, there are plenty of folks who are veterans and in the military who are conservative, but there are far more than you might think who are not, and who are supporting of progressive causes. The group that I'm involved with as well, Common Defense, we've got thousands of folks on our email list. We have hundreds of core activists who are doing everything from lobbying Congress for change. We had a big part in the end of the forever wars. We're very thankful to President Biden that he's finally decided to get us out of Afghanistan. You might have seen some of the things that we did during the impeachment cycle… Not this last one, the first one.
Andrea Chalupa:
<laugh>
Jeff Quiggle:
You might have seen the banner that some of my friends in Common Defense unfurled behind home plate at the world series in 2019.
Andrea Chalupa:
Wow. What did the banner say?
Jeff Quiggle:
It said impeach Trump. <laugh>
Andrea Chalupa:
<laugh> Not once, but twice.
Jeff Quiggle:
Yeah, that was the first time we had no idea that it was gonna take two and we still couldn't get the guy out, but, you know, as far as getting started, I mean, you just have to get started. And the thing that folks don't realize until they actually start talking to people is that there's more like them, you know, especially in red states, whether it's Texas or Georgia. I remember the first few times I started knocking on doors for Beto, people would come to the door and they'd say, “Oh yeah, I like Beto a lot, but, you know, don't tell my neighbors ‘cause they're all Republicans.” It's like, Well, you know what? I just talked to your next door neighbor and he just asked me to bring him a Beto yard sign. So the more you get out, the more you'll find people that are like you, and that's really what it's all about is finding your voice and wanting to make an impact, whether it's it's local, in your county, in your city. You know, Sarah running for office. That's awesome. You know, Emily out in Ireland actually helping out. Everything that you can do is helpful. And it's important just to find that passion, find that mission, and go do it.
Andrea Chalupa:
Fantastic. Now, let's talk to Sarah about running for office. That's Sarah May Seward of Michigan. Tell us about your experience. Give us a sense of what you're up against where you live and what you learned from putting yourself out there, which is a big, exciting thing to do.
Sarah May Seward:
In 2016, when I went to vote, I noticed that there were no Democratic precinct delegates on my ballot, and so I called the election specialist and she said, “Oh, well, you can run as a write-in. You just have to have two votes.” <laugh> So I had her come fill out the paperwork with me. She showed up at my precinct and we filled out the paperwork and I just posted on Facebook, “Anyone who hasn't voted yet, and if you're in my precinct, please consider voting for me,” and I ended up being precinct… I think I got like six votes or something. I made sure my husband waited until I got back to go vote. Around here, the party is very focused on top level, so it was really hard for me to even figure out what I'm supposed to do as a precinct delegate.
Sarah May Seward:
Since then, we've formed an actual, there's a whole group called the Oakland County Precinct Delegates the trains people and takes in any input that they have and tells them what to do. Because for me, I had to show up to an Indivisible group, find a candidate, latch myself onto them and be like, Please tell me what you need me to do, I'm supposed to be knocking doors, I don't know what to do. You know, once the pandemic hit, I'm a bartender, and of course I was laid off. And I got involved in One Fair Wage and also the Centers for American Progress contacted me to do like a short little video. It was all over Facebook and it was very embarrassing. And then it was just like, Well, you know, I can't keep complaining about White Lake being only Republican-ran and sitting in these meetings and getting so mad at these people if… Who else is gonna run? If I don't step up and just show people that you can do it, then, you know, nobody's gonna do it.
Sarah May Seward:
It feels very scary here. It is extremely, extremely Republican here. Like the, Fuck Your Feelings signs, the No More Bullshit signs, just Trump everywhere. The trolls have taken over local Facebook groups around here. Here, we have White Lake Township Happenings, and the trolls have absolutely taken it over. You can't post anything without being threatened or told to “suck it up, liberal, whatever.” You know, you can't do anything, so everyone feels like they're being attacked. So I ended up running and I ended up getting so many people contacting me, just being like, “I thought I was the only one. What can I do to help?” And for me, I did my whole campaign by myself. There wasn't a whole lot of support for the person who was running against Matt Maddock.
Sarah May Seward:
So when people came to me, I'd just send them to her. Like, please donate to her. I have, you know, I only need to buy like a hundred yard signs or something. It's not a big deal and I sent them over to her, but it was really interesting to have so many people just wanting to help, asking what they could do to join in. And then I think the thing that might have affected my campaign is that then the Biden campaign contacted me and I did an ad for him and it aired during 60 Minutes and during the NFL Playoffs or something, and I immediately had death threats and people coming after me for being, you know, it said my name at the bottom, Sarah from White Lake. But, I mean, we just put up security cameras and some Democrats do own guns. <laugh>
Andrea Chalupa:
<laugh> Wow, wow. That is an incredible story. So, thank you, first of all, for doing all that and taking such great personal risk. And I know, I mean, I just can't even imagine how threatening that environment must be to live and work in and to put yourself out there. And especially in a state like Michigan, where there was a plot by a white terrorist militia to kidnap your governor, Gretchen Whitmer, and execute her. And clearly they were going to do horrible stuff to her, and that was foiled, but that was a big focus of political violence where you had Trump using his Twitter account as a weapon against her, putting her life in danger, putting all his attention on her, really putting a target on her head. And that trickles down clearly. We talk on the show how the only trickle down the Republicans have actually succeeded with is the trickle down of their hate. And Trump is a great example of that. And Michigan was a big arena for their political violence, and you were operating in the thick of that. My God. So, thank you so much.
Sarah May Seward:
This area is a really big home base for that because… So Matt Maddock, he's the founder of the Conservative Coalition. He's the original founder of the Michigan Tea Party. His wife is the Co-Chair for the Michigan GOP. I mean, she has sent her Proud Boy daughter's fiance into my bar to threaten me. I mean, they're not great people. They're actually like really horrid people. The Maddock’s are very dangerous in this area.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yeah. They're stormtroopers. There's a whole history of people like them and they have a lot of use for the wannabe autocrats, for sure. So, for people listening abroad who just have basic questions, like, “What is the deal with them? What do you think that they want?”
Sarah May Seward:
I think they're really angry. I mean, of course, part of it is racism. Part of it is misogyny and the patriarchy and not liking things to change, and just… These people are not rich. I don't know why they think they're gonna be taxed so hard.
Andrea Chalupa:
<laugh>
Sarah May Seward:
I don't really completely understand it, but I do know that they're fueled by anger. If you can get them worked up about something, they'll jump on whatever bandwagon and whoever is helping them feel that rage and pointing them in the direction to take it out. But, I mean, I had a lot of success in just listening. I'm friends with a lot of my regulars that were Trump supporters, and a lot of times it just took them seeing that, like, I actually cared about them and their family, you know, like celebrating their birthday with them or finding out it’s their wife's birthday and like bringing her a coffee cup with candy in it or something. They'd be like, “Oh, but you're one of the good Democrats.”
Sarah May Seward:
I'm like, “We're all like this,we're just human.” It just seems like they just wanted to be angry all the time, about everything. I had a guy the day that it was announced that Biden won walking around the bar and grabbing women's genitals.
Andrea Chalupa:
Oh, wow.
Sarah May Seward:
And when I tried to throw him out, he was like, “I didn't do anything.” I'm like, There are six girls standing behind you that just said that you grabbed them. And he went outside the bar and told any person that walked in, “Don't go in there, it's a Democrat bar.” It’s like, it's not just Democrats that are against you grabbing genitals.
Andrea Chalupa:
Democrats are gonna raise your taxes and not let you grab women’s-
Sarah May Seward:
Willy Nilly. <laugh>
Andrea Chalupa:
<laughs> Yep. That's what it comes down to. How are you handling all this? How are you navigating it? How are you keeping yourself in the fight, given everything that you're up against, and what's next for you?
Sarah May Seward:
So I'm kind of used to living in high stress panic mode. My daughter's 17 and has schizencephaly, cerebral palsy, and hydrocephalus and she uses a power wheelchair. For the first eight years of her life, everything was very touch and go. So, I'm pretty used to just living, like, dealing with the thing that's happening at that moment. So like, thinking ahead is not something I do a lot. It's just like, what do I need to do right now? And what's ahead for me… So we're redistricting… In Michigan, we're lucky enough to have voted for Prop 2 and 3 in 2018. But, I mean, also our legislature is trying to gut all of that right now, anyways. Everything that we did. But with redistricting, if I'm still in Matt Maddock’s district, I'm running against him. I'm just, he's going down. Him and his wife, both.
Andrea Chalupa:
<laughs>
Sarah May Seward:
<laughs> But if I'm not, then I might run for County Commission or something, but in this district, you can't put people who are like super hoity toity Democrats thinking they're better than everyone else. You need a sassy, swearing bartender. So, I think that I'll be going up against him.
Andrea Chalupa:
Good for you. And what advice do you have for people running in very red districts?
Sarah May Seward:
When I ran for Township Trustee, everyone kept telling me it was “impossible” and, “Why are you doing it?” And, first of all, I really like canvassing. <laugh> You get to like pop in a podcast and just go walk out in nature and get your exercise in and meet your neighbors. So, I mean, that was something that I looked forward to doing and I did it every day until I went to work. So, I would get my daughter up and get her ready and then if my husband was home—he's a firefighter—so if he was home, it was like, See ya, I'm gone. And I'd just be walking for like nine hours a day. But I just never told myself it wasn't possible. It's not impossible, and even just one more vote is proving them wrong. Just because you don't win… I mean, that's not the biggest deal. It's actually getting out there and talking to people and getting them to understand that you are not against them: You want to make your community better. And I'm also a firm believer in community service and bringing other people in together. You need to have a community. You need to be talking to people in your community, whether they agree with you or not, because otherwise you forget their humanity and it's really hard.
Andrea Chalupa:
Well, thank you so much for that and keep us posted on all your work. I'm sure we'll hear more from you.
Jeff Quiggle:
Real quick. Let me jump in. Sarah, if you do run, I want you to reach out to Common Defense. We supported several candidates in Michigan last cycle. We did phone calls. We did texting. We don't support just veteran candidates, right? We support progressive candidates that are right for that race. So reach out and I’ll tell you right now, I can't make the decision, but I'll bet you we can get Common Defense to support you.
Sarah May Seward:
Great. I will. Thank you.
Andrea Chalupa:
Aw, you guys, I'm getting tears in my eyes. <laugh> This is really nice. So, now we're up to Mark, also in Michigan and we want to hear from you in terms of the farmers of America and why are so many conservative, do you think, especially when things are just getting worse and worse for the American farmer, and what your experiences were like in becoming politically engaged in the work that you do.
Mark Zacharda:
Yeah, I actually, you guys talking about where you were on January 6th, I actually was headed into my lowly USDA office, but I was actually streaming the news and I heard them break in with, you know, They just grabbed Mike Pence and Nancy Pelosi and something’s going on and realized like the magnitude of it. And then when Jeff mentioned earlier about they haven't had, in Texas, the legislature since the late ‘90s… I mean, that's, you know, all this coincides with the rise of the right wing media apparatus. So, the same thing has happened to rural people and it's this rural/urban divide that, in my opinion±from my perspective, being a farmer, living in a rural area—that's tearing the country apart, because Republicans have been able to weaponize that divide. Fox News, all they do is talk about how terrible the cities are.
Mark Zacharda:
You know, the cities are to be feared. There is no question. There's needles in the streets a lot, [inaudible], San Francisco and, you know, feces everywhere. And there's a reason they're doing that, and that is because they see how important the rural/urban divide is. So basically, they were all kinda in on the joke. And then basically there was like the BS hose hosing down the people out in the populace, you know, to be, “They're gonna take away your guns and they're gonna make everybody get an abortion.” And eventually, they turned the BS hose on themselves to where, now, legislatures—like a couple of my state representatives, like my US House Representative—I mean, I don't doubt that they are like true believers. I mean, they really think they are fighting for the good old America and the Make America Great Again.
Mark Zacharda
And just like Sarah was talking about, the Maddocks. You know, that was such a story around here last year when they made that Meshawn Maddock the Co-Chair of the GOP, the Michigan GOP. I mean, talk about picking a direction. I mean, the Republican Party is the Trump Party and that happened here in Michigan, just like in so many other states, unfortunately. Another irony of the USDA, I wanted to mention too, is that so many farmers get quite a few payments from the US Department of Agriculture. Our crop insurance programs are tied in with the USDA. It's all subsidized.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yes, exactly. Martin Luther King made the same point that the farmers get socialism, when people of color, they don't. And there's a reason for that, of course. And then also to your other point of pitting the two sides of America—rural and urban—against each other, that's how Hitler came to power. He ran on that. The real Germany was the Germany of the romanticized countryside, the farmer. That was the real Germany, and it was all of the “perverts” in the cities that were a threat. So we're seeing the same patterns today. But go on, Mark.
Mark Zacharda:
Yeah, that's been a focus—you know, like we're trying to do it in our rural county—is to, you know, figure out ways to bridge that divide. We are actually about a half hour or so—less than a half hour, really—from Flint, Michigan, which has been so prominent in the news due to the water crisis. And it might as well be around the world to a number of my neighbors because Flint is a predominantly Black city and it's, you know, it's just chopped off, gerrymandered away from us. And I get the sense that many people feel really disconnected. And what would be a great thing, if we could feel more connected to Flint—our proximity, our shared automotive and manufacturing history—and that's one of the things Sarah mentioned, the redistricting.
Mark Zacharda:
We're really excited about that. The redistricting, despite the best efforts of the GOP—they fought tooth and nail—but the redistricting commission is operative. They're starting to hold meetings now. That's something that we're trying to focus on is getting progressives out to those meetings and to try to make a positive effect on our districts. And I'm gonna argue that we should be joined, maybe, with Flint or part of Flint. And that might even hurt a Democratic candidate because Dan Kildee is a US Representative in the Flint district. His district has been packed with the urban communities of Saginaw and Flint. So all those Dems are packed in there so we can have as many Republican districts as possible, of course. But that's one thing that I was thinking about advocating for is trying to mix and get shared interest, shared representation in Congress.
Andrea Chalupa:
Do you think so many American farmers are conservative because they just buy into the propaganda? Or they haven't had voter education? Is there not enough outreach from the Democratic Party?
Mark Zacharda:
I think so. I think the Democratic Party can shoulder quite a bit of blame for kind of leaving rural America out. You know, I mean, there's only so many resources granted, but yeah, they’re insular communities. Our whole history of the racism in the country, the rural areas have stayed vast majority white, and as of the last few decades, increasingly older. So all these people have very little outside experience: They live in a very insular bubble and that's weaponized with the right wing media and Fox News and all these other, you know, AM talk radio. I'm sure Sarah also is familiar with WJR News Talk 760. You turn it on, sometimes for fun I flip over to stations like that, and I mean, it takes 10, literally 10 seconds to hear a far-right talking point. Either we're attacking unions or just all the same old BS that comes from them about, you know, making sure they keep their listening public scared and voting GOP. These people in rural communities, that’s what they're exposed to and they believe it. They become true believers over time, but that's what we're trying, you know, like I say, I hope the Democratic Party going forward has a focus shift and tries to dedicate more resources to rural areas, to try to illuminate to these people, as we've mentioned before, that they need to stop voting against their best interests.
Andrea Chalupa:
And what are some issues that the American farmer is struggling with, that you want the rest of America to be aware of?
Mark Zacharda:
The thing that I see the most often is the increase in farm size. I always think of it as like the Walmartization of farming. Nonstop consolidation, just like so many other things you see around us. It seems like pretty soon the world will be like either Amazon or Walmart. There's a similar thing with farming where there's fewer and fewer farms, larger and larger farms. The larger farms can crowd out the small farms because of efficiencies of scale. They can pay more and money talks, you know, it's the almighty dollar, just like everything else. So if you're a landowner and some huge farmer offers you $300 an acre to rent your land and then a smaller farmer is like, “Well, I mean, I can only pay one $150 but I'm your neighbor, don't you like me?” Who are they gonna pick?
Mark Zacharda:
I mean, farming definitely needs support. And I've heard a lot of liberals and progressives complain about farm subsidies, and that's where from some of my experience, I push back a little bit because they are essential. I mean, you have to have farmers and farming is an occupation that is unique on so many levels. You can lose everything in a year. And with climate change, we're seeing it more and more. We're in a terrible drought in Michigan right now. I think it was supposed to rain this weekend and I really hope it does, because we desperately need it. But due to climate change, there's more and more risk. We need crop insurance that needs to be subsidized by the government to help everybody stay in the game because you can't let one crop failure sink 50% of the farms in a given area in a given year, just due to mother nature.
Mark Zacharda:
So we have to support our farmers and I hope the Biden administration does better to help support small and even socially underserved farmers. I just saw—maybe someone else saw this too—an article in the times about a Black farmer, I don't, it might have been Missouri. I think it was, Sarah, in Missouri, where he woke up one morning, found out he was getting like a quarter million due to some program. And the white farmers, of course, in the area are outraged for that socialism going to not them. But yeah, rural outreach is important in bridging the gap. It’s essential to moving forward and not ending up in autocracy dystopia, which we feel like we're plummeting towards.
Andrea Chalupa:
Right, because the monopolization of farms and climate change, of course. And has climate change… How is that impacting your outreach to other farmers? Are you making headway there around conversation?
Mark Zacharda:
I think there is. Personally, I should do more personally. I mean, we only have some time and we're pretty active with our local party. I have thought many times about trying to talk one-on-one more with farmers. Of course, it's a tricky thing to breach the topic of politics and stuff, but the farming community, I remember seeing a farming magazine a year or so ago where the cover page was like
Climate change. It's here, we're feeling it now.” And so farmers are, I think, starting to turn a little bit and maybe that little bit of disconnect from the right wing talking point will maybe help them to kind of like realize this whole voting against your own interest thing. But, it's very real. We're seeing it more and more. We either are too wet. We can't do anything. You get four inches of rain dumped on you in two days. Or, we're bone dry for a month and a half.
Mark Zacharda:
And like I say, farmers are seeing that acutely. And hopefully they start to realize that too, that, you know, there's one party who's interested in trying to help the climate, and there's one party that isn't. And hopefully you start supporting the party more often that does, even if it's at the local level. But that's another huge thing too, is with support and subsidies for farmers to do positive practices, environmentally sound practices. So there is a role for the government that has to be played that no other organization can do and that no farmer would do on their own. Most farmers, the average age, last I heard, is probably like 59 years old, and they're not gonna implement a sound practice to preserve their soil from erosion or runoff or use chemicals responsibly because of the goodness of their own heart, unfortunately. So the USDA has to play a role to preserve our environment and our farmland, which is essential by providing subsidies and incentives. I've seen that firsthand driving around where I live. People have filter strips. They're trying to prevent erosion and they're trying to implement best practices for farming due to those programs from the USDA, which is a huge benefit to every single American and even people living everywhere on the planet.
Andrea Chalupa:
That's great. So, government works and America's farmers need government. Thank you for that. Alright, so Daniel of Las Vegas, Nevada, you are up. How are you?
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Good, thanks for having me.
Andrea Chalupa:
Of course, and tell us about your experiences in Las Vegas. Nevada was, of course, a state that was targeted by the Big Lie and we were watching Nevada. So could you talk about what your experiences are like in Nevada, in 2020 and the work you did and what's going on?
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Well, I've only actually been here three years, so I don't know a whole lot, but just from my experience, it is definitely a purple area when you kind of get out and go around and see all the people. My work, especially, where I'm at in retail is a mix of blue and red supporters. But yeah, like how everybody here is saying, my political activism didn't really kick in until like 2016 after the election results. I did some protests and then the whole George Floyd situation and the pandemic, just really kind of got all involved as much as I can. My wife and I, we campaigned for Elizabeth Warren.
Andrea Chalupa:
Yay!
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Yeah, yeah. tThat was an experience. She did more of the work than I did, and that actually kind of motivated me more to get involved. We caucused for her out here and canvassed all around our neighborhood. We don't have a car cuz we were in New York city for about eight years. So, we just walked around, but all my in-laws, they believe in the Big Lie. They think somehow Trump is just going to be the president again any day now, and it's really hard to deal with them. And then most of my family is on that same wavelength. My grandma, like she's someone who I grew up with and who raised me and taught me how to walk. And I'm like, how can you believe in all this stuff and support all these things? And so, yeah, that just really kind of got me more involved in trying to correct their thinking.
Daniel from Las Vegas:
And I did like infographs. I was constantly fact checking things like all their memes. I don't know if you saw, but the New York Times actually ended up doing a fact check on it too, but there was like this huge list of like 123 things that the former president actually did or whatever. I was like, There's no way this is true. I was looking through that and as to be expected, most of them were lies. He didn't do most of those things. So I was just fact checking and due to the pandemic I was able to end up working from home and just kind of do fact checking and text banking. And I was just kind of sitting with my fingers crossed waiting for the results of the election day, and then the whole Georgia thing. And I was like, “Oh man, what's going on?” And so I was like, I have to get back into text banking. And so that was kind of my experience.
Andrea Chalupa:
And have you had any success at all with your family and the fact checking and the Big Lie?
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Nope. None whatsoever. They think I'm crazy. My mom just doesn't want to even go there in politics and my dad tries to push my buttons all the time. And I just try not to go there. It's just like… I mean, I still love my family, but I don't want to… I try to stay positive when I talk to them and visit with them. But my in-laws is another story. They didn't raise me. So I don't really care about that.
Andrea Chalupa:
So you and your wife are struggling with this?
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Yes, my wife, even more so, because she got really involved in mutual aid out here and we were feeding the unhoused people here and we were also just working on trying to, I guess to put it bluntly, fight Nazis that are in our area. And she got involved in a campaign that was trying to expose those that were actually strong supporters of All Lives Matter and Blue Lives Matter. And unfortunately for her, she ended up starting to get a lot of death threats, and we had no idea how they even got her information and they even found out her personal phone number and our address. And so it got pretty scary for a little bit. So, she signed off completely and basically kind of fizzled out with her activism, just out of safety concerns. And then all of her family, more than mine, they’re also way into guns. So that was also kind of a concern too. And we think maybe one of them was actually kind of giving out her information or our information. So she basically kind of stopped communicating with all of them except her mom.
Andrea Chalupa:
Wow. I'm so sorry to hear that. It’s just incredible, I mean, just these stories that we're hearing of the death threats. I'm sure this is a lot more common than is being reported in just this small sampling of Americans here in this meeting. I'm sure a lot of people are struggling with these issues. In terms of your family, are they breathlessly refreshing the news for, any day now, for Trump to take over? What is their level of engagement there?
Daniel from Las Vegas:
I know they watch OAN now as their main thing and epoch times, however you say that, always sharing stuff from that. My side of the family, not my in-laws, I really don't know because to be honest, once I kind of realized they can't change their mind and they're set in their ways, I just try not to talk about politics with them anymore. I've realized just from the stuff my in-laws post, yeah, they think any day now. They have no… My wife even asked my mother-in-law, like, What proof does Uncle Rod have that Trump's going to all of a sudden become president? And they don't. So it's like, how can you believe something when there's nothing to support it. It's been kind of a thing for me to wrap my head around.
Andrea Chalupa:
So in researching this topic, whether it's QAnon or the Big Lie, when people get sucked into cults, it's really important not to abandon them and to stay engaged. And it sounds like you're doing that through keeping things positive and patient. So, that's good.
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Speaking of cults, I think that's a big part of it too because both my in-laws and my biological family are all evangelical Christians and that's what my wife and I grew up in. And thankfully, we then grew out of it and were kind of, I guess “able to see the light” and see reality. But I think, as you guys have said, that's a big part of it too is somehow, that mindset they're able to accept and just believe everything right wing pundits and propaganda, as if it's like the infallible word of God or something.
Andrea Chalupa:
Just for listeners that might be tuning in from abroad or just anywhere, for a refresher, what are Evangelicals and what do they want and why are they so supportive of Trump?
Daniel from Las Vegas:
From my experience, Evangelical is kind of another name for the Pentecostal denomination part of Christianity. And for my wife and I, we both grew up in the same church. Actually, before we lived in the New York City area, we were in Iowa. So I'm technically a Midwesterner by blood. But we were raised to be able to die for Jesus and do anything you can to witness and promote the word of God and be a missionary, if you can. And so I think just that whole mindset of forcing your mindset and beliefs onto someone else, and then that you're willing to fight and die for that, kind of carried over to what we saw on January 6th. And everybody in that mindset also is very elitist. It's like, if you're not thinking and believing in God the way I do, you're wrong and you're going to hell. You're inferior. And if you're not going to go my way, then forget you. You’re now evil. You're just like, you're either demon-possessed or you're just as bad as Satan. But until they get to that point, they're doing everything they can to get you on their side because they want to save you and save your soul and be a big happy family in heaven. It's really a messed up thinking. Sorry, I'm probably tangenting a lot.
Andrea Chalupa:
No, this is fascinating. This has been such a diverse sampling of America in this conversation. And you can't talk about America without talking about evangelicals.
Daniel from Las Vegas:
True, yeah, unfortunately. But yeah, it's sad because I see my own brother and my mom go that way. They're all still in Iowa. So yeah, I just try to keep it positive. I try not to go there because then I get upset and then they get upset and then it's just like, well this was a wasted call, now we're all upset. So, I just try to send them birthday cards and holiday cards and keep it nice and light. And maybe someday they'll come around, but I don't know. They probably take the same thing of me, to be honest, thinking I'm lost, I'm a wayward boy and I need to find my way to get right with Jesus and confess and ask for forgiveness, because that's how they think. But yeah, it's not gonna happen, unfortunately.
Andrea Chalupa:
It’s estimated that 30% of America is evangelical.
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Okay, cool. So the number’s shrinking.
Andrea Chalupa:
<laughs> What do they see in Trump?
Daniel from Las Vegas:
I think, unfortunately, because the Republican Party brands themselves as the Christian party. that’s basically all takes. So like I was talking with my grandma, she's like, I've always voted a Republican and I'm just going to vote for whoever the Republican is because they're who Jesus would vote for. I'm like, well technically Jesus wouldn't vote and he actually probably was even against government, and that's even if he existed. So, anyways, she just votes for whoever the Republican is because she believes that is the Christian way to vote. And I think that probably then trickles through a lot of the Republicans and that's why they vote the way they do.
Andrea Chalupa:
And so what is next for you? I mean, I know you've gone through a tough time with your wife getting death threats, but do you plan to keep staying engaged? Are you doing any work now on that? And I know you're also helping people that have been hit hard by the pandemic, as you mentioned, but what's your focus now?
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Well, yes, definitely still staying involved. Thankfully things have settled down. I really have no idea what I would do if the former president ended up getting another term, but I'm thankfully that we can kinda relax just a little bit. So, you and Sarah did an episode on self care, so I've just kind of been doing that a little bit. All last year, I didn't even take care of myself, so I gained a bit of weight. So I'm trying to get rid of that. I’m catching up on some projects that… I'm also kind into music, so I'm trying to get some things done so I can get more publishing for my arrangements, and compositions. But as far being involved in mutual later on here, we're looking at other ways to be involved safely.
Daniel from Las Vegas:
Right now, we've kind of found a bunch of people that kind of think the way we do here in Las Vegas, and so if they need help or… We have a friend who was really affected. They were involved in art out here and because pretty much out here all the shows shut down since last summer, and they're slowly reopening thankfully, but the governor just got rid of the relief for renters and they're going to be hit. So we're like, well, why don't we just help pay a couple of months of rent for them and stuff like that. And so we're just trying to see safer ways that we can be involved and still help those in our community.
Andrea Chalupa:
So all the stories we've been hearing, whether it's Democrats abroad or veterans coming together or a bartender and her customers reaching out and finding supporters… It's community at the end of the day. It's farmers talking to farmers. And so this has been a story of community and finding community and sticking with our communities. So we want to thank you all for your time today in coming on Gaslit Nation. I needed this conversation as self care. Sarah and I get bored talking only to each other.
Sarah Kendzior:
<laughs>
Andrea Chalupa:
<laughs> And so this was really inspiring for me and it's gonna energize me in all the work that we need to keep doing. So please stay in touch with us as we move forward and do all this really necessary work or else it's gonna be bad, bad, bad. So thank you all.
Sarah Kendzior:
Yeah, thank you everybody. We really appreciate it and we appreciate everything you've been doing.
[Outro theme music, roll credits]
Andrea Chalupa:
Our discussion continues and you can get access to that by signing up on our Patreon at the Truth Teller level or higher
Sarah Kendzior:
We encourage you to donate to your local food bank, which is experiencing a spike in demand. We also encourage you to donate to Oil Change International, an advocacy group supported with a generous donation from the Greta Thunberg Foundation that exposes the true cost of fossil fuels and facilitates the ongoing transition to clean energy.
Andrea Chalupa:
We also encourage you to donate to the International Rescue Committee, the humanitarian relief organization helping refugees from Afghanistan. Donate at rescue.org. And if you want to help critically endangered orangutans already under pressure from the palm oil industry, donate to the Orangutan Project at theorangutanproject.org. Gaslit Nation is produced by Sarah Kenzior and Andrea Chalupa. If you like what we do, leave us a review on iTunes. It helps us reach more listeners. And check out our Patreon. It keeps us going. You could also subscribe to us on YouTube.
Sarah Kendzior:
Our production managers are Nicholas Torres and Karlyn Daigle. Our episodes are edited by Nicholas Torres and our Patreon exclusive content is edited by Karlyn Daigle.
Andrea Chalupa:
Original music in Gaslit Nation is produced by David Whitehead, Martin Vissenberg, Nik Farr, Demien Arriaga and Karlyn Daigle
Sarah Kendzior:
Our logo design was donated to us by Hamish Smyth of the New York-based firm, Order. Thank you so much Hamish.
Andrea Chalupa:
Gaslit Nation would like to thank our supporters at the Producer level on Patreon and higher...